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Infidel
 
JBL930's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,172
Ignition coil question

Ok chaps, i realise that i have a 993 engine so not really 930 related, but hoping for some help anyway.
I have been having all sorts of boost issues, and have gone through two coils this year. The coils have been going due to them getting wet, my issues have always come up when i've been caught in a heavy shower.
I can make sure that never happens again by correctly shrouding the coil etc, but it got me thinking.
My boost issue has been caused by the spark being blown out down to a weakened coil/poor spark, and i'm a little concerned that even when the coil is working as it should, that running 1.1-1.2bar with K24/26 turbos, using a spark that's designed for way less, is not a good plan.
I don't really want to go mad here and rip out too much, does anyone know of a plug and play type system or coil that will give me a better, fatter, stronger spark than my stock set up? It would need to work with the stock Motronic system. I know less than nothing about ignition systems, and what is compatable with what.
Can anyone help?

Edit: The ideal answer would go something like this
"Jonathan, if you go with a 34*DC2 Blaster coil from ABC Spark Wizards, just replace your original with this, then use a set of Alien Flux Vortex leads, and a set of NASA Moon Orbital spark plugs set to 0.864 Parsecs, all of your troubles will be behind you"
Here's hoping
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Jonathan.
87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan

Last edited by JBL930; 06-18-2010 at 05:07 AM..
Old 06-18-2010, 05:02 AM
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A930Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mount Pleasant, South Carolina
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How is the water affecting the coil? Is it installed upright or upside down? Is there a protective cap on it you can drill small holes at the bottom to let any water out? Can you relocate it?

That said, can you install an MSD 6AL system? Still take a coil, so I'm not sure that is the answer.
Old 06-18-2010, 07:59 AM
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Infidel
 
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The coil is mounted on the rear cross member, and as i don't have any seal around the intercooler like on the 993t, water just pours all over it when it rains. The dizzy gets wet too, which doesn't help. I'm not entirely sure how it's killing the coil, only that it's now killed two in short order. I spent half the journey home from Le Mans on a low loader

I can rectify the water issue, build a shroud around them etc. But now i realise that the spark has so much effect, (obvious when you know i guess), i was just wondering if there was something i could buy, upgrade, add-on, to make sure i had a kick ass spark at all times.
I can't help but think the stock coil is a little weedy, and that it will be operating past it's limits at my boost level, and with doing so many flat out runs with long spells at WOT i would benefit from a stronger spark.

I read something about dwell cycles or something, and that some coils when pushed hard, don't have time to build a full charge for each spark. For instance at 4000rpm you are getting a good strong spark over the 6 cylinders. But at 7000rpm it doesn't have chance to recharge and send a good spark to each plug. I'm just asking for peoples experiences, and whether i'm worrying about nothing.

I'll have a look at the MSD 6AL though, cheers Rocket
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Jonathan.
87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan
Old 06-18-2010, 08:11 AM
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JOHN---Forget the coils......

WATCH THE FREAKING GAME...U GUYS NEED A WIN!!!!!!

Good thing the U.S. came back!!!!
And the freakin Krauts drank the wong beer...Freakin pissed ;(

Walt
Old 06-18-2010, 09:23 AM
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I actually hope we loose, then we can have a summer without everyone barking about football. I'd watch if we were in the final, but only the second half.... Can't stand the game, it doesn't involve petrol. Although it would if i was in it
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Jonathan.
87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan
Old 06-18-2010, 10:02 AM
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MSD probably makes high output coils that work with the twin plug motronic ignition.

Last edited by JFairman; 06-18-2010 at 12:48 PM..
Old 06-18-2010, 12:25 PM
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A930Rocket's Avatar
 
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If it's mounted straight up, water is shorting out at the connections or leaking inside it. Can you rotate and mount it at an angle to keep water from collecting?
Old 06-18-2010, 01:20 PM
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A930Rocket's Avatar
 
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Does your system have one or two coils? Single plug or twin plug heads? There's a rubber boot used on some models that might help protecting the dizzy. I'm nit familiar with the montronic, but if you just need fire, a a MSD 6AL model will work. Some have the boost retard built in.
Old 06-18-2010, 01:25 PM
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The 993t is single plug, with just one coil. The coil is mounted with the terminals facing up, and without the seal around the intercooler they are right in the path of any water coming in. Now i know that it's water that is killing the coil, i can make sure that doesn't happen again by shrouding it.

I was just wondering whether i could/should aim for a better spark at the plug.

To give you some idea why i am thinking about this, i have been chasing an odd boost issue for some time, my map should give me 1.1bar, and when it's running well it does, and pulls really strong.
But sometimes the car acts up, only boosting to 0.8bar, like at the last VMax event. It can run like this for a while, and then suddenly and for no apparent reason it will go back to a proper 1.1bar.
I hadn't noticed that it was connected to the rain, but looking back it makes perfect sense. I set off for Le Mans last week and the car was running strong, we drove through a shower and after the shower it was only boosting to 0.8.
We drove further and there was a major downpour, after that i was lucky to see 0.5bar and was spluttering as soon as boost started to build. It seams stupid now, but i still hadn't put two and two together, i thought the ECU was acting up, and i had two spares with me, but they didn't help, changed the DME relay, that didn't help. Then i'd go around and check connections on everything, MAF sensor etc.... and then it would fire up.....idle for a while, then idle badly, then be fine. I'd go for a spin and it would boost a little, maybe 0.5bar and then splutter, but off boost it seamed fine. Then without warning it would die all together, no sign of life. Leave it for an hour and it would start again. Really odd behaviour...

New coil fitted and my mechanic said it's back to being scary fast, he said he was shocked how much quicker it feels than when he first fitted the bigger turbos a month or so ago.
Which in turn has me thinking if the spark makes SO much difference, how can i go about having the absolute best possible spark with my stock set up.
I wonder if, even in new condition, my coil simply isn't up to the job. I'd rather have something that was running at 75% of it's capacity when under full demand from me, if that makes sense?


Is it just the coil that makes the spark? Is there such a thing as too much spark?
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Jonathan.
87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan
Old 06-19-2010, 05:06 AM
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I did not know and am very surprised the 993TT, or your 993TT is single plug/single coil because all the normally aspirated 993 engines I've seen are twin plug with dual distributors and 2 coils like the twin plug 964 used.

The 964 turbo was CIS through while the 993 twin turbo finally got rid of the miserable CIS and went digital with way more accurate crankfire triggered motronic, and MSD 6 series CDI boxes do not work with motronic from everything I've read.
Old 06-19-2010, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
I did not know and am very surprised the 993TT, or your 993TT is single plug/single coil because all the normally aspirated 993 engines I've seen are twin plug with dual distributors and 2 coils like the twin plug 964 used.

The 964 turbo was CIS through while the 993 twin turbo finally got rid of the miserable CIS and went digital with way more accurate crankfire triggered motronic, and MSD 6 series CDI boxes do not work with motronic from everything I've read.
Yep, 964's too, twin plug everywhere except for the turbo...not sure why? All 993t's came with single plug, seams a silly doesn't it, but that's how it is.
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Jonathan.
87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan
Old 06-20-2010, 05:30 PM
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