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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Squirrel View Post
I think it is important to distinguish between personal attacks, like "consider the source", or "rodent problem" or any similar comments.

1.My point is that this system is a poor design. 2.This one is truely awful because in the case of twin turbos, equal length, which RarlyL8 has been marketing on this forum for awhile now, is actually measureably effective, if done correctly. 3.These in my opinion are not. As far as appearance is concerned, while I'm sure that they look "cool" to some,4. they are a joke to me. I think that is a fair opinion to be expressed in a forum like this.
1. Why is this poor design?
2. Why is this truly (spellcheck!) awful. Because RarlyL8 has been marketing on this forum for awhile or is actually measurably (spellcheck!) effective, if done correctly? Huh?
3. Again, why are they not?
4. This is how you stay serious and expressing your opinions like on a real forum?

Anyway, opinions are always welcomed in forums but you can`t expect to be taken serious if you`re not giving any info.
Old 07-03-2010, 07:38 PM
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The new "Loren" of the turbo forum has been found..... appears to know of what he speaks, but won't share what he knows and has some interesting delivery....

oh well, should make for interesting reading....
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Old 07-03-2010, 08:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #42 (permalink)
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Do I really need a PhD in Automotive Engineering to combine proven designs into one product?
Do I really need race car experience to build street car products?

I have degrees hanging on my wall and lots of experience in different areas if any of that matters. Yes I sell from my internet website but I'm not a distributor of stuff, I actually design products and have them manufactured to my quality standards in the United States. If I had a huge shop with racing and dynos and blingy bla bla bla these headers would cost $5000; which they do if you buy them from my competitors.

The designs are convergent evolution and nearly identical by the way.

I have replaced all major competitor's headers with mine and they have outperformed all. Client feedback has been 100% on that and it is backed up with dyno data which I have posted.

No my headers aren't the most perfect design physically possible. The most perfect design wouldn't fit on a boxer engine or be practical for a street car. Too many folks get caught up in the impractical for the sake of theory.
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Old 07-04-2010, 09:49 AM
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Smokey Yunick dropped out of school at age 16, never to go back..............LOL

Degree's help but don't mean everything.
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Old 07-04-2010, 10:17 AM
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"If I had a huge shop with racing and dynos and blingy bla bla bla these headers would cost $5000; which they do if you buy them from my competitors."

Just curious, who are your competitors making these headers that cost $5000?

If you're reaching or trying to compare yours to the old Bob Holcomb headers that are not made anymore, they are not the same.
Old 07-04-2010, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
That said, I like that Brian is designing headers and mufflers and selling them to whoever wants to try them out.
BTW, they work pretty good too!!!

Brian, just stay focused and do your thing...
Old 07-04-2010, 11:10 AM
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Wow. Sounds like a philosophical difference between "race car engineering" and Hot Rodding.

As an engineer myself - with more than one diploma hanging on my wall - I'll just state a couple of the things I learned in school.

1. There usually exists more than one right answer.

2. Engineering is always compromised by cost. Given an unlimited budget, you can build a bridge to the moon.
Old 07-04-2010, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not_hans_stuck View Post
Wow. Sounds like a philosophical difference between "race car engineering" and Hot Rodding.

As an engineer myself - with more than one diploma hanging on my wall - I'll just state a couple of the things I learned in school.

1. There usually exists more than one right answer.

2. Engineering is always compromised by cost. Given an unlimited budget, you can build a bridge to the moon.
Finally!! Some sense has come from all of this.
I've seen the Bob Holcomb works-of-art, but good grief man, these things are built to a specific, limited application. Brian is a Porsche hot-rodder who loves these cars. If he wants to come out with a product that is better than the competition (FabSpeed, B&B, GHL, Schell or OBX for that matter) in this market, then more power to him!
Stop being "header-snobs" .....there's enough wine-snobs out there to cover any industry.

Finally, if there are truly engineers out there, then some of you have lost sight of our profession, INNOVATE!
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:58 AM
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Brian,

We are lucky to have your products and the flexability in design you are offering.

Keep up the good work.

Looks like a real monster of a build.
Old 07-05-2010, 11:28 AM
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Guys,

I have a good friend who had been with Bobby Rahal for several years and has an extensive background in all the major forms of Motorsports. In talking with him he mentioned all their headers were made in Europe by a manufacture that does F1 R&D on exhaust systems and supplies to all the major F1 Teams. Bill said the man requires complete chassis drawings, 2 fresh race engines, and a years lead time to develop and manufacture a set of headers for them. The cost for the first set is usually around $40,000.

Back in the real world where we just want these Old Sleds to run well on the street Brian's headers work quite well. That said, we need to understand there is a lot of expensive space between the practical and the theoretical. For us poor working stiffs we learn to get along the best we can with what we can afford.


Cole
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Last edited by cole930; 07-06-2010 at 04:32 AM..
Old 07-05-2010, 01:37 PM
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Well guys, I simply just want to buy a works good, fits good, made good, I can get to all the nuts-n-bolts set of STREET HEADERS, from an honest hot rodder.

There are other STREET HEADERS available out there, they sorta fit, are sorta well made, and with a little tugging here-n-little tweaking there, a torch applied to this bend or that bend, they even bolt up. If you are real lucky as well, there will be no slag or welding wire end bits that will break off and be ingested into your turbo.

Frankly speaking, getting that half a second better lap time at Watkins Glen, or Road Atlanta just doesn't come up much for me. Extending the distance between me and John law and the next multi choice escape route comes in much handier and more often!!

Focus people, focus....Brian makes STREET HEADERS, and from what I can ascertain...DAMN NICE ONES.

Simply my point of view, nothing more, nothing less.

Mark
Old 07-05-2010, 08:20 PM
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Nice looking twin setup

I'm in!
Old 07-06-2010, 06:15 AM
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So Brian seems to have a great quality product, proven dyno results and they look really cool, but since Brian is not a former rocket scientist, this could not possibly be true. Only then you have a half dozen customers, including a shop, who consider these headers an upgrade over shorties based on their butt dynos and some actual testing.

I just find it fascinating that the people dumping on Brian don't actually have any experience with his particular headers, nor credentials beyond back yard mechanic as far as I can tell. So they are just making random guesses to try and dispute dyno evidence and customer experiences IMO.

By the way, I was one of the posters that constantly told Brian to show us a dyno chart. I now believe these headers add as much power versus the Euro header approximately as the B+Bs add versus the American market header. Whatever that translates into on the street level is probably a lot less significant than the quality difference in welding and metal used, and proper fitament in some cases. Throw in good customer service versus no customer service...
Old 07-06-2010, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Squirrel View Post
I think it is important to distinguish between personal attacks, like "consider the source", or "rodent problem" or any similar comments.

My point is that this system is a poor design. This one is truely awful because in the case of twin turbos, equal length, which RarlyL8 has been marketing on this forum for awhile now, is actually measureably effective, if done correctly. These in my opinion are not. As far as appearance is concerned, while I'm sure that they look "cool" to some, they are a joke to me. I think that is a fair opinion to be expressed in a forum like this.

Previously, Rarly's posters attacked us for simply asking for comparison data. I see no reason for that, or for this latest attempt to suppress the opinions of others. I certainly have never attacked RarlyL8 as a person, and have no intention to do so. I do think it is fair to challenge an idea or philosophy. That's one aspect of a forum. If that is not appreciated, I have no problem with banning myself, as I find the lack of such interchange dull and uninteresting.
Hey Speedy
Your opinion is like an A hole, everyone has one, are you marketing a better product than Brian, why not??? seems like you know everything, maybe you've been sniffing to much rocket fuel, You wanna dump on people then hit off topic, you'll get your butt spit out in a hurry, do you even have a P car or is your turbo on your mom's Kia. Sit back , shut up and read, maybe you'll learn something from the people that are really knowledgeable. The more you type the goofier you come across, Ya got any front wheel drive burn out pics to share?
Old 07-06-2010, 10:22 AM
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I know it is a lot more fun picking sides and jumping on the rumble bandwagon.

If possible it would be nice if we could just rise above instead of living up to the Porcupine joke.

It might be more appropriate if someone actually could offer a technical opinion to run up the flag pole for discussion, positive suggestion for improvement, or actual comparative dyno results (I have only seen Brian's).
Old 07-06-2010, 03:30 PM
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Running a comparative dyno might be a little tough as nobody else makes rear mount twin turbo headers that I am aware of.

One important factor that someone brought up earlier is development cost. These will surely be a small volume niche market item so it just makes sense that they use the same engineering applied to my split plenum headers if for no other reason than to keep cost down. This is why we offer kits; for those who wish to apply their own engineering.
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Old 07-06-2010, 08:51 PM
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I honestly welcome a good exchange of experiences, ideas, and technical opinions and I am sure everyone else does also. From some of his past posts it seems Speedy may have the background and knowledge to be a viable contributer to a good discussion on exhaust systems and his opinion would be welcomed and appreciated. But does anyone really think the way to start such a discussion is by making your first statement " The worst I have ever seen. Good for a laugh though " and then have the gall to whine about someone attacking him personally. Jesus man, you may be the greatest mind known to man but your social skills suck. Get your s--- together and come back when you can actually contribute something constructive because that's what we are all here for.

Cole
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Old 07-06-2010, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not_hans_stuck View Post
Wow. Sounds like a philosophical difference between "race car engineering" and Hot Rodding.

As an engineer myself - with more than one diploma hanging on my wall - I'll just state a couple of the things I learned in school.

1. There usually exists more than one right answer.

2. Engineering is always compromised by cost. Given an unlimited budget, you can build a bridge to the moon.
Amen not_hans_stuck.

I have worked with engineers my entire career and the only ones that I think are worth the oxygen I share are the ones who keep an open mind and prove their concepts by making and breaking them and then doing it again until the desired results are achieved. Too many times I have been burned by engineers who hold a god complex b/c they have a diploma hanging on the wall and produce poor misguided work. I hear holier than thou overtones from some here and it gets my pressure up. How the h3ll are we supposed to learn except by sharing information and then have a discussion about it?! I get sick of people saying sh&t that if not for the safety of the Internet otherwise would get them punched out in a bar. (end of rant)

Kudos to you Brian for doing and then sharing with the rest of us! I hope to hear the results of your endeavor.
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Old 07-06-2010, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911nut View Post
Twin turbos will be a different driving experience than a big single turbo; more along the lines of a n/a engine with boost being a little more progressive and available at a lower rpm. Gone will be that "light the JATO" feeling of a single turbo hitting hard at 3k rpm.
Depends on the displacement you're running and boost, but trust me even with a 3.8 you feel it hit you like a touch of god...
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:16 PM
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Sorry for my spelling. Please see the thread on short vs equal length headers elsewhere on this forum for starters. I try to avoid repeating myself. I would be happy to go into more technical detail with you if you want. Maybe a new thread on just the principles of exhaust systems might be in order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oheggem View Post
1. Why is this poor design?
2. Why is this truly (spellcheck!) awful. Because RarlyL8 has been marketing on this forum for awhile or is actually measurably (spellcheck!) effective, if done correctly? Huh?
3. Again, why are they not?
4. This is how you stay serious and expressing your opinions like on a real forum?

Anyway, opinions are always welcomed in forums but you can`t expect to be taken serious if you`re not giving any info.
Old 07-07-2010, 10:35 PM
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