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The beginning of the conversion to EFI and EDIS

I along with some friends pulled the motor today to do some top end work and convert to EFI and EDIS.

Here is the plan. After sorting out a few issues going on with the top end the CIS will go away and an EFI system will be installed utilizing MS2 along with an EDIS. If time and budget permit the turbo will be replaced with a K27s with dual wg's and Ben's Y-pipe.

Also some other goodies will be added which will be revealed later.

The goal is to have a motor that is powerful, managable, and reliable in the 400hp range to the wheels. The car's will be used for a combination of street and track use. I'm keeping all of the creature comforts like stereo, a/c, heat, power windows, etc.






Here's where I ended up tonight after about an hour's worth of stripping parts.
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John- I blame and thank the longhood boys of Austin
-84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo, 78 930 RoW sunroof delete coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 93 Mustang convertible stroked and irs ,71 911T, 73 911E. Oh ya and a Bobcat!
"Illegitimi non carborundum"
Old 07-05-2010, 07:18 PM
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Almost forgot

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. My friend made me do it. I'm used to standing on a crossmember on the other end the car, this is strange...



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John- I blame and thank the longhood boys of Austin
-84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo, 78 930 RoW sunroof delete coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 93 Mustang convertible stroked and irs ,71 911T, 73 911E. Oh ya and a Bobcat!
"Illegitimi non carborundum"
Old 07-05-2010, 07:23 PM
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Old 07-05-2010, 08:00 PM
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turbo and exhaust off

I got the turbo and exhaust off earlier this morning. It sure it tight in there even out of the car.
Note: none of the support brackets for the cam oil lines are attached. Nice... this would have been problematic later. Also note that is was is issue getting access to the distributor hold down nut with the way it was clocked. There are just so many little things that I see that are just careless and I'm a Newbie to this. Some of this was done at your "neighborhood" garage that has no "bizness" messing with this car. Almost like me, but I own it...



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John- I blame and thank the longhood boys of Austin
-84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo, 78 930 RoW sunroof delete coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 93 Mustang convertible stroked and irs ,71 911T, 73 911E. Oh ya and a Bobcat!
"Illegitimi non carborundum"

Last edited by sundevil64; 07-06-2010 at 06:04 AM.. Reason: added note
Old 07-06-2010, 06:00 AM
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I see the tear down has begun. I guess this means you need the engine yoke sooner rather than later...

You are getting a lot done since I left yesterday afternoon. When do we need to start tuning?
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71 911T SWT - Sun and Fun Mobile
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Old 07-06-2010, 06:18 AM
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tear down

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Originally Posted by jpnovak View Post
I see the tear down has begun. I guess this means you need the engine yoke sooner rather than later...

You are getting a lot done since I left yesterday afternoon. When do we need to start tuning?
It only took me a about 2.5-3hrs to get this far. I'm good at taking stuff apart. I think you know where you come in on this project. How about next weekend... all the bolts are "loose". I see about a full weekend of degreasing, walnut shelling, painting, and powder coating here.


Should I have the alternator serviced while it's out? or is that a costly proposition?

Reminder, send me the list for the top end reseal if you think of it today. I'll get them on the way.
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John- I blame and thank the longhood boys of Austin
-84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo, 78 930 RoW sunroof delete coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 93 Mustang convertible stroked and irs ,71 911T, 73 911E. Oh ya and a Bobcat!
"Illegitimi non carborundum"
Old 07-06-2010, 06:28 AM
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My two cents.

EFI is nice and can make for a solid improvement. However, unless it is done really well may hurt your motor/cars's value if that is of any concern.

Getting rid of thouse worst ever built 3.0T heat exchangers, adding a modern turbo (GT 30?), and doing a little tuning will transform your car, make for a significant HP gain, and get rid of probably 70% or more of your turbo lag.

If you are thinking of going to 993 headers w Ben's Y pipe that is a great fast spool effecent set up with factory quality heat.

Good luck with the project.
Old 07-06-2010, 07:02 AM
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"911st",

I'm not concerned necessarily about the vehicle's value in terms of originality. That was long gone when they put the 930 motor in, the andial system, Yamaha sound system, and trimmed some sheet metal to accommodate the new motor.

I want a car that I'm not afraid to take to the track and drive on the street or leave in a parking lot. I may be a little afraid of the parking lot thing, but that's what insurance is for.

I am putting in 993 HE's with Ben's Y-pipe with dual wg's and put a K27s in.

We are using MSII which is upgradeable to the MS3 should we need to go there. I think with a little self-restraint we should have a reliable car.

Thank you for the well wishes. btw- I've enjoyed reading your threads, very informative!
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John- I blame and thank the longhood boys of Austin
-84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo, 78 930 RoW sunroof delete coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 93 Mustang convertible stroked and irs ,71 911T, 73 911E. Oh ya and a Bobcat!
"Illegitimi non carborundum"
Old 07-06-2010, 07:25 AM
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John, How about the GT2-Evo cam for this build?

I will let John describe the build in more detail as he sees fit. Let's just say it is based on solid previous experience from the members of the forum.
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71 911T SWT - Sun and Fun Mobile
72 911T project car. "Minne" - A tangy version of tangerine
classicautowerks.com - EFI conversion parts
Old 07-06-2010, 08:37 AM
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dude, you're gonna love the MS2 / EDIS6. Did you set-up the boost control output? works great. I don't want to hijack your thread but if you want to see some pics of my conversion (to give you some ideas about coil pack and sensor placement) I'll be glad to post them up..

good luck and i'll be watching
Old 07-06-2010, 10:26 AM
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I thought the box stock Evo cam doesn't play nice with common plenum intakes?
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Old 07-06-2010, 10:39 AM
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yes, the MS EFI is a huge upgrade to that CIS system. We have been reading your conversion thread. I think the intercooler plumbing on the backside still needs some thought. I like the 3.2 flipped throttle body installation. however, a long end tank might make things easier to remove. We have talked about welding up a custom intercooler but I don't know if this will happen. We might use the stock IC and then MeOH/water injection.

Kenik, Why not? 111 deg lobe center is plenty wide enough for common plenum. This is only 1 deg narrower than SC or 964 that are commonly used for boosted applications.
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Jamie - I can explain it to you. But I can not understand it for you.
71 911T SWT - Sun and Fun Mobile
72 911T project car. "Minne" - A tangy version of tangerine
classicautowerks.com - EFI conversion parts
Old 07-06-2010, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpnovak View Post
yes, the MS EFI is a huge upgrade to that CIS system. We have been reading your conversion thread. I think the intercooler plumbing on the backside still needs some thought. I like the 3.2 flipped throttle body installation. however, a long end tank might make things easier to remove. We have talked about welding up a custom intercooler but I don't know if this will happen. We might use the stock IC and then MeOH/water injection.

Kenik, Why not? 111 deg lobe center is plenty wide enough for common plenum. This is only 1 deg narrower than SC or 964 that are commonly used for boosted applications.
Something I read a while back from John Dougherty, I think. Can't recall exactly, but it was related more to ease of tuning, as opposed to being a deal breaker. I think it was challenging, but not insurmountable.
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Old 07-06-2010, 11:06 AM
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boost control

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmatera View Post
dude, you're gonna love the MS2 / EDIS6. Did you set-up the boost control output? works great. I don't want to hijack your thread but if you want to see some pics of my conversion (to give you some ideas about coil pack and sensor placement) I'll be glad to post them up..

good luck and i'll be watching
We have not set up the boost control as we are in just in the early stages, but we do have a boost controller that we will be utilizing. We are going with a 1bar spring and bleed off what we don't need.

I would love to see some pics. Post them please and thanks!
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John- I blame and thank the longhood boys of Austin
-84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo, 78 930 RoW sunroof delete coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 93 Mustang convertible stroked and irs ,71 911T, 73 911E. Oh ya and a Bobcat!
"Illegitimi non carborundum"
Old 07-06-2010, 12:35 PM
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tear down

I got a little more taken off. What a mess. The build up was almost a 1/2" thick on some of the ducting. Note the broken head stud on 5 and the what would apppear to be a new headstud on 5 also. Given all the grease and stuff it's "shiny" like new. Is that the famously expensive 993 head stud?





Found some wiring issues too.





Found this also when we pulled the motor. We think we can fix this without too much drama. I found a bolt on the ground with a crush washer. Now I know where it came out of. The metal was fresh and it had what appeared to be bathroom silicone on the area. My guess is a shop was just trying to get this out the door then the tranny was reinstalled after a rebuild... Oh well...

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John- I blame and thank the longhood boys of Austin
-84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo, 78 930 RoW sunroof delete coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 93 Mustang convertible stroked and irs ,71 911T, 73 911E. Oh ya and a Bobcat!
"Illegitimi non carborundum"

Last edited by sundevil64; 07-06-2010 at 07:33 PM..
Old 07-06-2010, 07:09 PM
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damn, shes a dirty girl.

We mounted the coil pack in the space the old dizzy occupied. Looks factory


Here is the 36-1 wheel and sensor mounting. We back cut a groove in the ring slightly larger than the pulley O.D. on a laithe. That allowed us to center the wheel perfectly. Welded them together and bolted it back on.
Old 07-07-2010, 07:42 AM
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"drmatera",

Yes, it's a bit of a mess. I like the EDIS mounting location. Are you using just two brackets? I take it there are no heat or vibrations issues?
Were the wires long enough or did you need to fab up some wires from bulk stock?

John
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John- I blame and thank the longhood boys of Austin
-84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo, 78 930 RoW sunroof delete coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 93 Mustang convertible stroked and irs ,71 911T, 73 911E. Oh ya and a Bobcat!
"Illegitimi non carborundum"

Last edited by sundevil64; 07-07-2010 at 09:05 AM..
Old 07-07-2010, 07:54 AM
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Hey, I used factory Ford Motorcraft plug wires for a 4.6L Crown Vic, You end up with 2 extras but the lengths worked out quite well. They even fit the openings in the valve covers pretty nicely

Yes, just the 2 brackets. The coil packs are very hardy and were built to live in harsh conditions. No trouble at all out of the EDIS set-up.
Old 07-07-2010, 10:38 AM
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update

Thank you "drmatera" for the tip on the 4.6 wires.

Just an update. I haven't had much time in the last few days to do much with the motor, but I have started to get parts in for the EFI and EDIS build.

Crank trigger wheel, VR mount,and Dist plug. (btw-why is the distrbutor called a "dizzy"?)



39# EV6 injectors from an 03-04 cobra. Easy to get and relatively cheap. Also, the injector clips from DIYautotune.


Also from DIY a stimulator board. Neat little thing.



and the MSII 2.2 with ms3 adaptability.


Waiting on gaskets and misc parts from EBS. btw Troy is great to deal with there, thanks Troy! Also waiting on the EDIS kit from Ebay. Which btw, is so much easier than going to the terribly muddy junk yard (like walking through oatmeal) to get.

Gonna put the engine up on a stand tonight and may just do a leak down on it for curiousity's sake if we have time before I tear into this weekend.
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John- I blame and thank the longhood boys of Austin
-84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo, 78 930 RoW sunroof delete coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 93 Mustang convertible stroked and irs ,71 911T, 73 911E. Oh ya and a Bobcat!
"Illegitimi non carborundum"
Old 07-09-2010, 01:49 AM
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Best of luck with this, John - I'm going to follow this thread with interest.

I was going to ask if a) you had a done a leak test, or b) whether you were going to split the case - then I read your last post

I have a K27-7200-S, just wondering if it will be big enough for you (considering all the EFI trouble you're going to) - you could drop some monster on there!

TJ
Old 07-09-2010, 04:14 AM
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:14 AM
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