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ECU choices for my 930

I have been battling with tuning for my 930. It has a 3.3L bored to 3.6L with a 3.2 Carrera intake, twin plugs, and a k27 7006. Also a Haltech F3 ECU with Electromotive Ignition. I am moving away from the F3 unit, and was going with a MegaSquirt II system, but my mech has been having issues trying to get the system working the way he wants, also has spent many of his own hours trying to get a handle on it. He has suggested moving to complete Electromotive TEC3 GT-6 system (ECU, Ign Coils, Harness, and sensors). Only problem is that I've have heard some negative experiences with the TEC3R system from a friend who used to run the TEC3R in his M3 race cars. The main issues was tuning (E-tuning, reliability, and if your battery goes dead or needs to be changed, you lose your maps). I'm not sure which way to go with this. Is there anyone using the MegaSquirt system that has had a good experience, or the TEC3 system. I have also been suggested a newer Haltech (newer that my F3). Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks
Old 08-09-2010, 01:12 PM
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If you do decide to go with Electromotive I have a Tec3R with dual plug coils tuned and wired for a 930 that I will sell for a good price. It is used but I never used it as I haven't gotten around to installing it yet.
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:40 PM
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what tuners are near you?
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Old 08-09-2010, 02:50 PM
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My mech was going to tune it (he is very knowledgable & able, but was having trouble with the DIY MS II system) there are other options, Titan Motorsport, PRS (Performance Racing Solutions), and Prototech in S. Florida
Old 08-09-2010, 03:11 PM
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My advice is to use the ECU that your tuner is most familiar with. My other advice is to pick a tuner familiar with air cooled Porsches.
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Old 08-09-2010, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
My advice is to use the ECU that your tuner is most familiar with. My other advice is to pick a tuner familiar with air cooled Porsches.
+1 on this. I've had great results with Megasquirt II, but I've seen others struggle with it. Go with one that your tuner can support.
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Old 08-10-2010, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick 930 View Post
I have been battling with tuning for my 930. It has a 3.3L bored to 3.6L with a 3.2 Carrera intake, twin plugs, and a k27 7006. Also a Haltech F3 ECU with Electromotive Ignition. I am moving away from the F3 unit, and was going with a MegaSquirt II system, but my mech has been having issues trying to get the system working the way he wants, also has spent many of his own hours trying to get a handle on it. He has suggested moving to complete Electromotive TEC3 GT-6 system (ECU, Ign Coils, Harness, and sensors). Only problem is that I've have heard some negative experiences with the TEC3R system from a friend who used to run the TEC3R in his M3 race cars. The main issues was tuning (E-tuning, reliability, and if your battery goes dead or needs to be changed, you lose your maps). I'm not sure which way to go with this. Is there anyone using the MegaSquirt system that has had a good experience, or the TEC3 system. I have also been suggested a newer Haltech (newer that my F3). Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks
Since you're familiar with the Haltech units why don't you switch over to one of the Platinum Sport units. Got just about everything you will need and is fully adaptable to many different combos. The Haltech Sport 2000 ecu would be the best choice with full sequential injection and direct fire ignition. If not the Sport 1000 would work with semi-sequential injection and wasted spark ignition.
Most important Haltech got great support.
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Last edited by crispeed; 08-10-2010 at 06:36 PM..
Old 08-10-2010, 06:34 PM
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Just removed and sold that TEC3 system from a shop project car. Updating with AEM system on this one. Our company specializes in the real hardware to convert to EFI. Be happy to consult with you about it..



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Old 08-11-2010, 04:25 PM
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Hi, neat project. I have a $5K or so MoTeC option available.

MoTec Engine Management System | ALL NEW SYSTEM

MoTec M600 Control Unit
Complete registered system
Fully enabled / Full access
Hi / Low Sequential Injection
Dual Lamda Control
Data Logging : 512K
Updated firmware
Harness done with Mill Spec and Deutsch connectors, Tefzel wire, with Raychem heat shrink and boots. State of the art.



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Old 08-11-2010, 04:57 PM
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Chris that IC is sick...

After speaking with another friend who runs the TEC3R in his 993T race car, he stated that he has never had any issues with his unit. So, I'm likely to go with the TEC-GT6, due to $$ and I don't need a top of the line system that controls parameters that my car doesn't even have. My car is a weekend driver w/ the occasional HPDE. I want to stop the car from running rich, so management for fuel, spark, timing, and a few other items and we should be good. My mech feels that the TEC-GT6 will be just fine for what we are trying to accomplsh.

If there are any other experiences concerning certain systems, please chime in.
Thanks
Old 08-11-2010, 05:05 PM
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Thanks Brian,

But that is a bit out of my $$ range, looks like sweet system though.
Old 08-11-2010, 05:11 PM
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My $0.02 worth:

Nothing good to report on Electromotive TEC3r / GT / whatever systems. I know many others have had success with them, but we've always found driveability to be the #1 complaint.
Example:
1976 3.2L Turbo making 485rwhp on 91-octane. Sure, easy.
But it stalled at traffic lights, inconsistently.
Idle would hunt, inconsistently.
Integrated boost control didn't work as advertised (erratic), had to run separate Profec boost contoller (super reliable, proven).
Customer even took it to the West Coast distributor/guru. Even he couldn't tune out the driveability problems (also cracked piston rings in the process, another story).

We switched it to AEM, problems gone.

For <$2000, you get an ECU with twin Lambdas, 6 ignition channels, 6 injection channels (full sequential), boost mapping, knock control, and more additional inputs & outputs then you'll probably ever need.
Basically, most everything a $6000 Motec M600 will do, but with better idle & boost control.

If you would like a quote for an EFI hardware package, call or email.
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Old 08-11-2010, 05:38 PM
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My MSII has been great. I run EDIS6 coil pack ignition as well. And with the new software from TunerStudio called VE analize live it will tune your car perfectly. I have run the VE live a couple times now and the car drives like a factory EFI vehicle.

You can find fault in any ECU and human error adds to that. It depends on how much $$ you want to spend and what you need it to do. For well under $800 you can have MS2, EDIS ignition, boost control, a/f and a number of other user defined outputs. For about $1000 you can have MS3 sequential fuel and coil control as well. Not to mention a bunch of MS heads down here in Florida willing to help.
Old 08-12-2010, 07:34 AM
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I guess my questions are

1. What is wrong with the original Haltech? What problems made you switch ECUs?
2. What problems occurred and why did you switch from the Megasquirt system.

I have been running a MSII system for several years now and the engine runs great. I have also installed and tuned several other cars with fantastic results.

btw, Chris, you have some very nice installs that I have seen.

Where is the car running rich? Idle, off-idle, low-speed cruise or under boost? Each requires a different approach to tuning. There are also parts choices to consider. If you are putting down big numbers (as a tuned 3.6 turbo can) you have to consider injector choice. High-impedance injectors will allow high fuel flow but will be difficult to control at low speed due to the inherent time delays of the injector. You just can't open/close in a short enough period of time. In this case you may require low-impedance injectors. This will help the transient response. Of course, not all ECUs can handle the current draw of low-impedance injectors. MSII can.

I agree with Dr Matera. you can find advantages and disadvantages for each ECU. Human error is often the biggest hurdle. Make sure you choose a system that you (or a mechanic or a friend) are familiar with such that you can solve all the problems and build a true "system" that works as intended.

Good luck on the project.
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:24 AM
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Great thread.. sub'd
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Old 08-12-2010, 01:28 PM
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Thanks for the input drmatera, & jpnovak

The reason I was moving away from the Haltech F3 is that, it is a +/- 15 yr old system, also it is very difficult to find the special tuning cable that unit requires. A fellow pelican "Turbo Nut" was very kind in letting me borrow the needed cable from across the country. Also the F3 only controls fuel and spark, (from what I understand) and I was suggested that the MS system and other modern systems would give me more engine control such as timing (retard/advance), idle control, boost control, etc.

The issue with the MS system is that my mech was trying to use the DIY MS II with older Electromotive Ign coils. But, it just wasn't being very friendly or working the way he wanted. I don't know all the technical details of why, but it was proving to be difficult. Now, I have heard good things about the MS system from "Turbo Nut " originally, a few others, and now from you guys. The negative comments I have heard about the MS system have been from others (outside Pelican) that eventually offer other systems for sale. I'm sure those other systems are very good, but there maybe some bias in their advice. That is why I turned to the Pelican community to see what others have experienced.

I greatly appreciate everyone's comments, and you all are the reason Pelican is such a wonderful place to get educated on so many topics. We will keep researching and listening, until my mech and I find the sweet spot we're looking for.

Anyone else care to share....let'er rip, I'm all ears.
Regards
Old 08-12-2010, 08:35 PM
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my 2 cents. . . ."most" aftermarket standalones are very tunable (spark & fuel) and many do what high dollar motecs do. The trick is. . .the tunner! It takes time to tune all rpm ranges, all throttle stages, fuel enrichment at throttle input. For example, imagine you tune idle 850 rpm, you tune 1500 to 5000 rpm at 10% throttle every 500 rpm and you follow the curve for all other rpm ranges. Then you have to do the same for 1500 - 5000 rpm at 40% throttle...etc Then you do it all over again but at different engine loads (example going up a hill) etc....see where im getting at ? and not just fuel but timing too !!

Its somewhat of a black art to do this efficiently and quickly, much harder to do without a chassi dyno!

Most standalones will do what you need, but the tuner will make it work like you want!
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Old 08-12-2010, 08:47 PM
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yes, getting the drivability tune right is very time consuming as there are many variables that need to be calculated. Since the creation of Tunerstudio for MS that is now a thing of the past. The software fine tunes your base VE table using inputs such as MAP, Wide band and TPS. It makes multiple calculations every second as you drive to create an incredibly consistant and smooth tune. I've spent hours upon hours tuning it myself, once I ran the VE analize program and drove around for 25-30 minutes letting it do it's thing I now have a car that runs smoother than my 07 Tacoma. Cold start is near perfect, and it needs almost no accel enrichment now. Yes you will have to create your own timing table but thats somewhat easier and any one of us MS users can email you that info. In fact I can email you the a/f target table MS uses to create this wonderful tune.

Pick up an EDIS6, it's a no brainer hook up to MS2 and I have no need for any extra spark enhancing equipment so far. It sounds like i'm pitching a sale but in fact I am only a user and huge fan of MS. And being an idiot when it comes to electronics and computers I can truely say MS is easy to use and tune.
Old 08-13-2010, 08:59 AM
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Isnt technology great !
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Old 08-13-2010, 12:52 PM
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Old 08-13-2010, 01:43 PM
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