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-   911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/)
-   -   Newbie buying advice on a 930-stock or mods (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/557969-newbie-buying-advice-930-stock-mods.html)

Waderaces427 08-09-2010 08:09 PM

buying advice Photos of two 930s for sale
 
I have really benefited from the passion that is shared on this forum. From technical writeups to opinions, this site has given me a foundation for my next purchase (930). I am curious as to those who have a stock vs modded 930 would you do your purchase or build differently knowing what you know now. Mainly reliability. I plan on using my 930 as a weekend car with possibly some track time. I have owned a bunch of cars (AC cobras, M5, muscle cars, pro street) and each had a "point of no return" in regards to mods vs. reliability vs. lots of $$$. Which mods fall into the safe zone if any ie. (turbo, intercooler, etc.) Thanks for your input.

twin plugged targa 08-10-2010 04:27 AM

I am just about to buy a 930 and was just about to post the same question!
So I will linger on your thread if okay?
I am thinking along the lines of changing:
1 bar spring on wastegate
Intercooler upgrade
Fast spool turbo upgrade
improved exhaust

- For there on in I guess it gets expensive especially if you open the engine - SC cams, EFI etc.

Otherwise I was going to look into either a G50 transmission or reducing the final drive gear on the 4 speed box to allow better around town driving and faster acceleration - obviously with a lower top end, but who wants to go 170mph? :eek:
regards
Ben

RarlyL8 08-10-2010 06:03 AM

Welcome!
The 930 responds very well to "standard" modifications without sacrificing reliability. You can easily gain 100+WHP with bolt-ons alone. Improving efficiency does not stess the engine and balancing increased boost level with proper fueling and intercooling will preserve longevity.
Others can chime in with specific examples.

turbobrat930 08-10-2010 06:45 AM

I wouls say, unless you are a collector, and plan on keeping the car in a bubble, buy a car with the mods you might complete yourself. You will save money and have a more enjoyable car to begin with. You could drop $5 to $6 grand on the most common bolt on mods, and when they are already on a car that is for sale, you won't pay near that much for all of them....

That being said, I would NEVER look at a stock 930 to buy if I was the one buying the car... but that is me.

LOWFAT 08-10-2010 08:03 AM

Modded is the way to go.By reading your history with car's it appears that you have already made up your mind even if you havn't realized it yet.You WILL add things to make it faster I know because I have owned many similar car's, trucks,and motorcycles and they ALL were modefied.If you do buy one that is bone stock it will cost you more in purchase price as to one that has been modded and you will then be out of the cost of the additional bolt on's when you realize that it may not perform up to your expectations.If you still havn't made up your mind I would advise you to drive a stock one and then a modded one to feel the difference, BUT I will say that just because the modded one will be faster and have things done to it be careful because there are people who shouldn't be allowed to work on or be around car's that have these things.Have a ppi performed on any car you are considering and by all means feel free to ask as many questions that you need to in here about a potential car.Take pics and post them in here of mods that a car has and let the "keen" eye's have a look. I can't gaurantee we will see all problems but we may be able to pick a few things out you may miss.Also post a pic and where the car is located,someone may know the car and have some inside info be it good or bad, this is a small community and word get's around.I hope this helps the both of you......Ben

JBL930 08-10-2010 09:14 AM

I'd never buy a stock 930 either, I wouldn't mind one that was nicely set up and still retaining the CIS system, but i'd be looking for a fully EFI converted car if i was starting from scratch. Stock to look at though, there are many lovely cars with body mods, but i love the stock 930 shape, just with a bit of beast under the rear.

sundevil64 08-10-2010 09:29 AM

I agree with "turbobrat930", unless you are a collector mod is the way to go. You need to define what your purpose is for the car. If you are going the concours route then obviously stock, but if not there are alot of great options that are virtually limitless that will make you "giggle like a school girl". Since it looks like you are going to use the car for the same purpose as myself (street and track)I strongly recommend a modified car and save the correct car for the right guy looking for the stock verion. Get as much information as possible on who did the work or you'll be like me shaking my head on the rebuild. It seems like everytime I turn around there's more rtv! What's next SAE studs? scratch that...I don't want to curse myself.

Good Luck and keep us posted

jwasbury 08-10-2010 10:27 AM

I chose a stock 930, and if I could do it over I'd go with modded for the reasons others have mentioned above. In my own defense, I really had no idea that I'd be so bitten by the mod bug with this car. I've managed to stay pretty close to stock on all the other vehicles I've owned over the years.

The one thing I will say with a stock car is at least you know what you have (if its truly stock and unmolested). The factory manual and bentley books will actually be helpful for you if you DIY. Mods can be done well and make sense, or they can be a $hitshow...if you've educated yourself enough to know the difference (or know/pay someone who does), then going modded makes a lot of sense (and saves a lot of dollars).

With respect to reliability, there is certainly a point "of no return" as stated by the OP but I can't say exactly where it is...subjective methinks. I think its important to keep in perspective that even in stock trim, these engine can be damaged easily if not properly looked after. Consider that bone stock Euro spec 3.3 turbos were rated at about 90hp per liter. That's a pretty healthy specific output even compared to many modern vehicles and especially considering its an old-tech, air cooled, two valve per cylinder lump. Upping the ante is possible but either way watch your AFRs, fueling and ignition timing. I'm not expecting mine to go as long as a Honda before the next rebuild either;)

Waderaces427 08-10-2010 05:23 PM

Thank you for the responses. I am looking forward to becoming a new owner really soon!

cardsrule 08-11-2010 07:02 PM

Ok let me throw my 2 cents in. I have a modded 930 that i have been trying to sell for awhile now. The car was pretty stock when i got it. Then like most people with 930's things started to "snow ball" and 90k later I am having a hard time trying to sell it (for cheap). So if you plan on keeping the car for a few years then i would stay pretty close to stock, unless you live in a cold climate get rid of the stock intercooler. Just something to think about. I didn't think about this 5 years ago but with out the 930 i would have never became a factory trained Porsche tech.

For more info on my car go to www.porsche930forsale.com (sorry for the plug)

Scott

mark houghton 08-11-2010 08:07 PM

It's such a twisted sickness...mod mod-not mod. If you buy stock, you'll soon want "more", only because you know that "more" is easily attainable. If you enjoy wrenching and doing your own work - and the pride and full understanding of what you end up with - then buy stock and add on as your funds allow. When you're done, you'll know most of the in's and out's of the 930 and will be able to maintain your car by yourself with that knowledge at hand. Face it: Owning one of these almost requires that you become intimately knowledgable, 'cause there isn't some dude just around the corner at the local ricer speed shop that knows them better than you.

If not mechanically inclined, then buy pre-modded to get the performance these cars are capable of. If you're concerned about being a short-term owner and worried about resale, then leave the damn thing alone and enjoy it as-is, then sell when you've tired of it.

My motto: Buy it, plan to keep it until the day you die, and do what you want with it without looking back. And if times are tough and you end up needing to sell, then you'll find the dude that wants a fully modded car 'cause it's so convenient to have had someone else do all the setup work in advance.

The only person that has touched my car...which I purchased stock (or returned to stock before I bought, who knows?)...is me.

esotoracing 08-12-2010 03:07 PM

Its a 300 hp car. . . .Instead of more power, more power and more power. . . .why dont you go with less weight, less weight, less weight !! If its a weekend / track car, then you can easily get away with fiberglass (or more expensive carbonfiber) bonnet, fenders, doors, remove interior, etc... and you can always easily return to original if the time comes to sell as original.
Add the usual intercooler and exhaust upgrade to help with the inherant turbo lag, and adjustable warm up regulator for some fuel adjustability and cure some problems that CIS has (mid-rage being fat and top end leanning out) and you will have yourself one fun weekend car that will hold its own at the track. Lighter weight means no big brake upgrade or fat tires to hold the twisties. Higher boost = more heat and heat kills these engines! Just my 2cents

JBL930 08-12-2010 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esotoracing (Post 5503461)
Its a 300 hp car. . . .Instead of more power, more power and more power. . . .why dont you go with less weight, less weight, less weight !! If its a weekend / track car, then you can easily get away with fiberglass (or more expensive carbonfiber) bonnet, fenders, doors, remove interior, etc... and you can always easily return to original if the time comes to sell as original.
Add the usual intercooler and exhaust upgrade to help with the inherant turbo lag, and adjustable warm up regulator for some fuel adjustability and cure some problems that CIS has (mid-rage being fat and top end leanning out) and you will have yourself one fun weekend car that will hold its own at the track. Lighter weight means no big brake upgrade or fat tires to hold the twisties. Higher boost = more heat and heat kills these engines! Just my 2cents

Agree with this too :D I'm a high speed junkie so i needed more power, but for fun, weekend track time etc, the above makes LOTS of sense

Texas Turbo 08-13-2010 08:20 AM

I agree with most... buy modded as you will probably end up on the slippery slope anyway. You can get all those upgrades for a huge discount by buying someone else's project. That works in your favor if you like and trust the work done by the previous owner.

That said, buying it stock and making it "yours" is also a ton of fun, just way WAY more expensive.

Another shameless plug for a car you should consider (mine):

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/557841-1986-930-47k-miles.html

esotoracing 08-13-2010 11:45 AM

i love your 930 Texas!. . . i grew up with 930s in my garage. My dad had a 77 in black as a DD and a 78 in that metallic brown as a sunday car. i was just a kid but i loved them and the feeling of being pressed up against the seat was only surpassed when i rode in my dads 800hp racecar.

when i finally move. . i will embark on a 930 project. Im looking at full fiberglass & carbon body, headers, garretGT35, intercooler upgrade with standalone and twin plug head. some suspension (dont wanna go full 935 sus yet) Want to try out how it feels light with original sus but lowerd.

Again. . . .sweet turbo Texas!

LOWFAT 08-13-2010 11:49 AM

+1 on less weight but if you combine less weight with all of the free things you can remove before going fiberglass/carbon fiber and start with a modded car =twice the fun!!!:D

twin plugged targa 08-13-2010 12:06 PM

I just put the deposit on mine- pictures in a later thread. But it already has Ruf front and rear bumpers and so complies with the saving weight theory!.
Once I descide on keeping her I may just go with the RUF intercooler and 1 bar wastegate spring as i believe it already has a modded exhaust.
- I am sure it will not end there, but that will do for starters!.
thanks
ben

Waderaces427 08-14-2010 09:04 PM

Two 930s need opinions-Thank you
 
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f...7/IMG_0283.jpg
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f...7/P1090031.jpg
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f...7/P1090032.jpg
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f...7/IMG_0284.jpg


1979 Porsche 930 3.3 liter Turbo9309800280, 47,000 miles, Minerva blue exterior, black leather interior, sunroof, BBS 3-piece wheels, black powder coated wheels, 10" rear & 8" front, Recaro electric seats with heater and headrest speakers, stainless steel headers and exhaust system, front wheel oil cooler, alarm and radar detector, car cover, bra. This car has never been autocrossed or raced. Concours winner and featured in magazine and Porsche book. Just serviced, excellent condition, like new, original owner.





Fellow board member Al's 930 who has been very helpful..
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f...7/SANY1537.jpg
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f...7/SANY1549.jpg
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f...7/SANY0070.jpg
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f...30interior.jpg







1979 ROW silver 930. The car has 67k miles but the engine, trans shocks were redone about 7k miles ago by a master mechanic at the Porsche dealership. It has a black leather interior with sport seats, heated and electric. Many nice upgrades k27, ported and polished heads like SCcams, carrera chain tensioners, one bar waste gate, andial intercooler, stainleess steel headers with heat and muffler, 993 twin turbo head studs, new clutch. Very nice clean no issues car. Had a ppi performed about 100 miles ago with excellent leakdown results.


Here are two cars that I am interested in are priced identically not sure if the first owner is a board member but Al is. Thank you for your input.....

jwasbury 08-15-2010 04:26 AM

That Minerva Blue car has been advertised in Hemmings for a few months recently. I don't think the owner is online here or on other Porsche enthusiast sites. I noticed it was not in the latest (Sept) issue, but I guess its still for sale.

Obviously I am partial to the Minerva blue color as that's what I have. It really is a very striking color and attracts attention. I'm not crazy about the wheels or those massive recaro dentist chairs (though I think they are period correct).

Given that the blue one has no mention of major engine work, the silver car may be a better choice with the recently refreshed engine. There may be more to the Blue car's story however, so it could be a tough decision.

If memory serves, the asking on the blue on was 39k. Bear in mind that for that money (or less), there are full EFI conversions for sale. Neither of the 2 cars you have posted here as potentials are what I would consider 'heavily' modded...looks like the standard bolt ons.

No matter what choice you make, you will enjoy the ride

zcoker 08-15-2010 05:38 AM

Modded is a pretty general term. Sometimes even a modded car may need to be, well, "re-modded", which may or may not be the same thing anyway. I bought my car and it was fully modded with all the goodies over the years which can easily amount to thousands of dollars spent, yet I still opened her up to "know" what was what and to address issues or to improve on the modded components. All said and done, it is the fun at having something to do, something to work on, projects to complete. Either way, it is car that is appreciated both ways. It all depends on the taste and the care that other people have put into these cars over the years. I guess my point is this: just because it is modded does not mean that you will not have to do (or want to do) major work on it. So polish off that check book and apply for those low interest credit cards!


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