Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 139
Porsche Crest 930 EFI-Candy

I thought I would share some of the fruits of my labor here on Pelican. I am building a twin plug EFI motor for my 1980 930. The attached photos are of my modified Zuc-Z headers. This is my design with fabrication and welding completed by David Diviak of Maxwell Industries in Ventura, CA.

I am using a twin schroll ceramic ball bearing turbo, T4 Flange with a .47 aspect ratio. This turbo will flow up to 500 hp with excellent low end response. The primaries have been isolated in order to take advantage of the sequential exhaust pulses which will assist in low end throttle response. Here is a brief build sheet for the rest of my engine:

Motronic 3.2 EFI by Protomotive
Carrera intake manifold
964 Cams
Modified 965 inter-cooler (pictures to follow. This one is cool)
Twin plug heads ported and blended to match Carrera intake.
JB Racing Distributor
8:1 JE Pistons with thermal and friction coating
Kennedy Engineering 240mm Stage 1 clutch package.
Block and head work done by Ollies, Lake Havasu City AZ

I will post some more photos when I get a chance.





Old 08-18-2010, 08:56 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Me like track days
 
Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,196
Exceptionally nice. You should be well over 500 FWHP-
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 08-18-2010, 09:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
esotoracing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Caracas Venezuela, Miami Florida
Posts: 764
930 porn, Very nice ! Especially those beautiful clean welds! keep us updated
__________________
theres nothing like the rear end squatdown of a turbo
Old 08-18-2010, 10:00 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
onboost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Metro DC
Posts: 5,365
Rich,

Sounds like a nice buiild. The fab/welding work done on the headers is very nice.

Love the look of the old skool twin plug dizzy!

Look forward to more updates..

P-
__________________
RGruppe #180
So many cars.. so little time!!
Old 08-18-2010, 10:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 401
for sure nice engine Rich, congratulations!!

Please don`t take it personal please,
I don`t think the welds are 1+, but the picture
is not sharp enough to be sure 100%.
Maybe I am wrong...

I am a little picky with weldings,
my company is welding stainless and aluminium
on high quality level dayly.

Falk
__________________
87 930 bblk/blk
88 3.6 white/blk
Old 08-18-2010, 10:49 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
esotoracing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Caracas Venezuela, Miami Florida
Posts: 764
Upon inspection of the photo again. . .your right Falk, looks like 2 diff people welded the hedder. Part of it is right on and the other welds are way diff.
__________________
theres nothing like the rear end squatdown of a turbo
Old 08-18-2010, 10:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,274
Those look like B&B 930 headers with heat, and then with modified secondaries and wastegate circut.

The best welder/fabricator I've ever known or seen is Jim Weber. I've never seen welds as perfect and clean as his.
He was also crew chief for Blue Thunder Racing in the early eightees and did alot of work with Gunnar Porsche and Miles Collier shortly after that.
Old 08-18-2010, 11:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 139
Porsche Crest

The headers are exactly the same as B & B but they are manufactured by a company called Zuc-Z out of Tempe, AZ. They are no longer in business.

As for the welds, you guys may want to take a look at this web site .:Maxwell Industries:.. They are some of THE BEST fabricators in the business. The owner, Steve Watt, built the entire Speed Demon from scratch. Frame, headers, suspension, body, everything. They are quite amazing.

The guy that did my header modification does all of Maxwell Industries headers. He cut off the existing system from the collector back and fabed all of the individual pieces of 321 stainless. He even added gussets to help hold things together. I directed David on exactly what I wanted and he check with me as the headers progressed for fitment and finish.

Bottom line, excellent bunch of car guys.
Old 08-18-2010, 12:22 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
930gt-40r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,063
The fab work looks absolutely awesome to me, my only concern with this setup is gate creep- If it were me, I would run twin gates; one on each bank. But I still think they are porn...
__________________
Kris @ Tech9
86' 930/GT-40R Sold
94' Rustang GT daily (long gone)
2008 C6/Z51 Corvette
Old 08-18-2010, 12:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
stevie 77 930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chatsworth, CA
Posts: 598
Garage
Rich,

Looks fabulous....can't wait to see this on the road.

Steve
__________________
1974 914
2018 GTS
2017 BMW 340I M Sport Package
1977 930 (recently sold)
1976 911S , 1973 1/2 911T, 1972 911E (long gone)
Old 08-18-2010, 03:45 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 700
In order to take full advantage of the separate pulses to a twin-scroll turbo the wastegate circuits need to be isolated. The bridged wastegate circuit will balance the pulses between the banks, something you don't want.
__________________
1986 911 Turbo
3.3L, K27HFS, Tial 46mm, TurboKraft Intercooler, 964 Cams, Monty Muffler, MS3Pro Evo, M&W Ignition, Zietronix WBO2 Data Logger, Wevo shifter, coupler and motor mounts.
Old 08-18-2010, 04:38 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 139
Strange comment WinRice. This is exactly the same set up that Bob Holcomb of Mode Engineering uses on his twin schroll turbo headers. I wonder what you know that Bob doesn't? Seems to me that if the wastegate is closed, the pressure has no where to go but along the primary tube.

I'll go with Bob's advice on this one.
Old 08-18-2010, 05:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 700
Pat Williams does the same as Bob, but that is for a high output race engine that spends most of its time on boost while on the track.

To optimize spool-up with a twin-scroll turbo in a street application you want each bank to be separate all the way to the turbo so there is no overlap of the exhaust pulses. In other words, you don't want the exhaust pressure and pulse from one cylinder diluting the pressure and pulse of the next cylinder in the firing order. There's plenty of street examples that show twin-scrolls with a wastegate for each side of the scroll.

The only reason I say this, is I'm working on a twin scroll system with a GT4088R, and I've done a lot of research on twin-scrolls. I'll be using twin 38mm Tial WG's.

Examples of a Skyline and Evo system:

Turbo-Kits.com - Skyline Performance Parts - R32 R33 R34, RB26DETT/RB25DET

Agency Power GT35R Twin Scroll Turbo Kit Mitsubishi EVO X 08+

Just my 2 cents, and very nice fab work
__________________
1986 911 Turbo
3.3L, K27HFS, Tial 46mm, TurboKraft Intercooler, 964 Cams, Monty Muffler, MS3Pro Evo, M&W Ignition, Zietronix WBO2 Data Logger, Wevo shifter, coupler and motor mounts.

Last edited by WinRice; 08-18-2010 at 06:24 PM..
Old 08-18-2010, 06:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Wo ist die Rennstrecke?
 
DonE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Brooks, GA
Posts: 1,211
Very cool...
Old 08-18-2010, 06:14 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
MikeD930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: missouri
Posts: 1,566
Garage
Rich,
Nice work on the headers and engine. I really like that twin plug distributor.

What is the reason for going with Motronic 3.2 EFI by Protomotive system? Seems very few 930 owners go with Motronic (at least on Pelican board). My car has this system and it runs really well. But there's no provision for tuning while in the car at least for mine.
__________________
MikeD
'87 930
Old 08-18-2010, 06:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 139
MikeD94,

I have several reasons for going with the Motronic system.

1. Todd Knighton has been programming the 3.2 Carrera ECU for many years. He has a vast library of programs that he can taylor to each cars specific use and build parameters. I considered going with Motec, but at 12K to 15K plus all of the mapping after the installation, my budget and time were better focused on other performance upgrades.

2. California smog rules. I am setting this car up so I can pass the visual and smog level tests. Since the Motronic system uses a distributor, I am not breaking the rules with regards to my cars requirement to have a distributor.

3. Parts availability. This system uses all stock Porsche parts (except the distributor).

4. Reliability. This system has been proven to be exceptionally reliable in stock applications.

5. Proven performance. If this system is good enough for Alois Ruf (Yellow Bird), It certainly is good enough for my street car.

Thank you to everyone for there support and gracious comments.

Best Regards,
Rich
Old 08-18-2010, 10:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
930gt-40r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Buckner View Post
I wonder what you know that Bob doesn't? Seems to me that if the wastegate is closed, the pressure has no where to go but along the primary tube.
I'll go with Bob's advice on this one.
WinRice is 100% correct in what he is saying- Anyone who understands how a twin scroll setup works also knows why you don't share a wastegate between banks when they are supposed to be separated. Why Bob Holcomb does this? I don't know- maybe it is to keep cost down- or somewhat try to keep the stock geometry of the system so customers don't b!tch about where their wastegate pipe goes... I don't know. But surely it is not to maximize the gain from a twin scroll setup...

To optimize it, there should be two wastegates. No one is saying it won't work or its not beautiful...
__________________
Kris @ Tech9
86' 930/GT-40R Sold
94' Rustang GT daily (long gone)
2008 C6/Z51 Corvette
Old 08-18-2010, 10:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 401
Dont want to hijack this nice engine build threat with welding...
It looks like the headers here was build on the bench and not in a jig.
Cutting and grinding precise for a single set is a hughe work,
to prepare the parts exact for welding, oh yeah...
Maybe the welder here needed to close a few small gaps, that reduces
optical quality for sure ( if the goal is a 1+ look).
But as said, meanwhile everyone want to see a 1+ welding work,
probably we are a little picky abaout this.
If everyone like to pay that, I am not sure.

I looked on Mr. Rarly8 headers, from pictures they seem very good.
I truly want to see them in real here, just still a little concerned?
about the equal lenght design.
But they are worth to be tested, hopefully I will be able to have a set here soon.

Falk
__________________
87 930 bblk/blk
88 3.6 white/blk
Old 08-19-2010, 12:59 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 139
I guess we will just have to wait and see what the dyno has to say about this design.
I am not concerned, in the least, about a single waste gate. I have accomplished my goal in eliminating the pathetic air slow path to the waste gate that B&B headers have.

The microscopic analysis of how this design will function seem hypothetical until the raw numbers are in hand.
Old 08-19-2010, 08:40 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 301
Well, it's strange that Bob Holcombe uses a single wastegate on this application, because he built my engine (with Motec), and he used twin HKS wastegates. I don't have a twin scroll, though. Just a modified zero clearance turbo from Kevin.
Old 08-19-2010, 09:56 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:05 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.