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Yes they are 225 hoosier drag radials. They look nice on the stock rim,not too wide. The track surface is coated with traction compound plus a lot of rubber! The wheels dont spin on that surface so i figured the 225s may have less rolling resistance than 245s.. I guess ive always been in the drivers seat so ive never seen the amount of camber from behind, does seem a lot though now you point it out. That shot must have been right as the car left the line as the front left tyre looks like its bearly on the ground.. Have to wear a helmet at the track.. My head isnt that big ha ha!
Old 08-28-2010, 06:13 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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The modified K26 turbo you are using, is it a actual K26 or 3LDZ?
What was done to it to get those numbers?
That kind of power needs 31mm-33mm torsion bars out back to reduce the squat.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Old 08-28-2010, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy930 View Post
The wheels dont spin on that surface so i figured the 225s may have less rolling resistance than 245s..
Exactly. Wider tires would mean more weight to spin up down the track and could make the launch more difficult to get right.

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Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
That kind of power needs 31mm-33mm torsion bars out back to reduce the squat.
More squat equals more weight transfer. With the numbers he is putting down I wouldn't touch a thing unless the exhaust becomes a wheelie bar.
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:16 PM
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The turbo is a k26. Both the cold and hot sides have been modified. We suffer a fair amount of lag, so at this level you dont want too big of a turbo. You can modify the 26 to flow around 550hp. The exhaust side holds the answers to low end power and after the hot wheel we dont want any back pressure with nice flowing pipes and as least bends/restrictions as possible. I have looked at the various aftermarket headers and they look great right up to the awkward collector so i use the euro system,while longer has a nicer entry to the turbo,plus heat wrap it to keep the gas hot. We dont want to big diameter pipe from the cyl head because gas speed suffers if its too large. Understanding flow rates of different pipe lengths and diameters can be tricky.. a 3'' pipe 3feet long might flow roughly the same as a 2.5'' pipe 2feet long. Boost pressure need not be too excessive because as we compress air it gets really hot and this causes pinging and then the intercooler cant keep up and so on. Theres not really one part you could say thats the secret ingredient,rather the commimg together of all the little things that make the bigger picture These smile things are great!
Old 08-29-2010, 06:06 AM
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Very impressive Andy, where are you in Australia?
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Old 08-29-2010, 09:37 AM
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Arrow That explain it...

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Originally Posted by spence88mph View Post
Very impressive Andy, where are you in Australia?
... of course being Counter Clock Wise give you a few more miles per hour
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Old 08-29-2010, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy930 View Post
The turbo is a k26. Both the cold and hot sides have been modified. We suffer a fair amount of lag, so at this level you dont want too big of a turbo. You can modify the 26 to flow around 550hp. The exhaust side holds the answers to low end power and after the hot wheel we dont want any back pressure with nice flowing pipes and as least bends/restrictions as possible. I have looked at the various aftermarket headers and they look great right up to the awkward collector so i use the euro system,while longer has a nicer entry to the turbo,plus heat wrap it to keep the gas hot. We dont want to big diameter pipe from the cyl head because gas speed suffers if its too large. Understanding flow rates of different pipe lengths and diameters can be tricky.. a 3'' pipe 3feet long might flow roughly the same as a 2.5'' pipe 2feet long. Boost pressure need not be too excessive because as we compress air it gets really hot and this causes pinging and then the intercooler cant keep up and so on. Theres not really one part you could say thats the secret ingredient,rather the commimg together of all the little things that make the bigger picture These smile things are great!

Very interesting that you prefer and use the factory Euro exhaust system over all the other aftermarket stuff out there...your times in the quarter certainly put some merit on their use, no argument there, proof in the pudding. Your reasoning is the nicer entry into the turbo. Have you compared or used other aftermarket exhaust systems?
Old 08-29-2010, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy930 View Post
The turbo is a k26. Both the cold and hot sides have been modified. We suffer a fair amount of lag, so at this level you dont want too big of a turbo. You can modify the 26 to flow around 550hp. The exhaust side holds the answers to low end power and after the hot wheel we dont want any back pressure with nice flowing pipes and as least bends/restrictions as possible. I have looked at the various aftermarket headers and they look great right up to the awkward collector so i use the euro system,while longer has a nicer entry to the turbo,plus heat wrap it to keep the gas hot. We dont want to big diameter pipe from the cyl head because gas speed suffers if its too large. Understanding flow rates of different pipe lengths and diameters can be tricky.. a 3'' pipe 3feet long might flow roughly the same as a 2.5'' pipe 2feet long. Boost pressure need not be too excessive because as we compress air it gets really hot and this causes pinging and then the intercooler cant keep up and so on. Theres not really one part you could say thats the secret ingredient,rather the commimg together of all the little things that make the bigger picture These smile things are great!


Very interesting that you prefer and use the factory Euro exhaust system over all the other aftermarket stuff out there. Your quarter mile results certainly tell the tale, proof in the pudding. You claim better transition into the turbo. Have you used any other aftermarket exhaust system to compare?
Old 08-29-2010, 01:18 PM
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Hi spence88mph. Im about 2 hours drive north of sydney. I havnt dyno tested all the header systems out there... imagine the $$$$ Rather just to look at them and compare them to the nice job the factory did.. You just cant make more power without getting rid of the spent gas first and thats why i put a lot of effort into the gas flow through and out of the turbo. I like to think of my engine as a big air pump, the more efficient it is the more power you can make. Other things also help efficiency like cams and so on. Thus,we can make more power and reduce the stress on the engine.
Old 08-29-2010, 03:08 PM
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Andy,

Great build and very well thought out.

I love this stuff and I hope to learn a bit more from you if I may.

Do you mean you used 1990-94 normally asperated C2 cams as many have on a turbo?

What was your cam timing stratagy? Did you time them to stock 3.6 normally aspirated specs -- advance them for better low end like most? Or, did you go maybe go the other way and time them for a bit better high end HP?

At what RPM are you seeing peak HP & TQ?

If your peak HP at 1 bar is 447, what peak TQ are you seeing?

Any chance you would share your dyno results?

Did you port the heads and intake manifold?

Can you tell us more about your turbo build? Is the hot side just blue printed or was there a different turbine wheel fitted. On the cold side did you fit a larger / more efficent compressor wheel?

Again, well done and thank you if you can share a bit more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy930 View Post
.. 447 at the wheels without running my zork so maybe a few extra horses using it...
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Originally Posted by Andy930 View Post
I built the engine myself starting with 3.4litre mahles, ARP rod bolts and head studs.Time serted the case for added strength. 964 turbo cams and polished combustion chambers. Still using cis with a modded fuel metering head. Half bay intercooler,1bar spring,Stock euro exhaust to the highly modded k26 turbo then out to my 3.5in short zork. To drive, it has all the manners of a standard car and the power delivery is seemless all the way through to 7000rpm. Add to this some warm hoosiers and a good understanding of how to balance the clutch to load the engine in a attempt to keep from unsettling the rear suspension and i think our 930's can still put up a very good fight!
Old 08-29-2010, 06:02 PM
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With the numbers he is putting down I wouldn't touch a thing unless the exhaust becomes a wheelie bar.
lol
Old 08-30-2010, 05:23 AM
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Hi 911st! Ok.. I built my engine way back in 07 and trying to remember the exact cam specs.. well id have to dig out my old notes.. What i can say about setting up the cam timing is that you shouldnt trust the case parting line and the slight movement in the harmonic balancer to get your TDC perfect. Plus both cams need to be set identical left and right, also set the valve clearance and check it a few times to get it spot on, all this makes a difference. My peak power is at approx 5800 to 6400 and then starts to tail off. No porting to manifold or heads as on forced induction its not as critical as naturally asperated. Yes the turbo has a larger cold wheel,stock size hot wheel however of more efficient design, the turbo exit is 3'' I think around 650 flywheel newton meters is the torque
Old 08-30-2010, 06:00 AM
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Andy,

Thank you very much for the info.

I suspect your turbo sounds like it should not to far from the performance of the popular HF with your larger compressor wheel. However, your hot side might be a little bigger as most HF's have are based on the smaller k27-7200 hot side.

Stock timing on a C2 cam should make peak HP at about 6100rpm.

Thinking out loud, it looks like you are making your HP about 600rpm higher than the typical build on SC cams!

If that is the case this could be responsible for about 10% more HP by its self.

For example: A motor that makes 450hp at 6100rpm is at the same time making 385 ft lbs of TQ. A motor that makes 385 ft lbs at 5500rpm would make 405hp.

What also stands out is you are making it on stock intake ports and euro headers! This supports the thought that stock ports and headers are not impediments in the way of monster HP.

Well done and thank you again for sharing.
Old 08-30-2010, 03:54 PM
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Andy - What does your car weigh? I am at 438 RWHP and 413 RWTQ, and 2650 lbs.
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"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 08-30-2010, 07:20 PM
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Someone asked about a 7th injector however what about the 6 injector specifiction or other additional fuel delivery to deliver that much fuel for 447 thirsty horses. I also have noticed the factory Euro exhaust system seems to work well on the higher HP cars I have had however I have not had one with that many horses with that system but not surprised it will support that much especially with an improved exit after the turbo.
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Last edited by voitureltd; 08-31-2010 at 12:10 PM..
Old 08-31-2010, 12:02 PM
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"Support" and "optimal" are two entirely different concepts. A 3LDZ will support 300HP but sure as hell isn't optimal. I'd like to see what this engine would do with a set of my headers. Build me one of those turbos and I'll let you know.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Old 08-31-2010, 12:25 PM
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7th injector used in an uneven dry 930 manifod is just plain...dumb
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 08-31-2010, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
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7th injector used in an uneven dry 930 manifold is just plain...dumb
.................. Old school Miller Woods and other 7th injectors do something additional for CIS sort of like a carburetor. Just change out the lb rate injector for += fuel flow instead of jets for some fine AFR tuning as in the early days. Still would like to know, since it has not been addressed yet, stock size injectors with no other fuel delivery for 447 thirsty horses seems incredible. I need 55lb injectors with fuel rails to get enough fuel delivery in a 3.4 motor @ 15psi. with 450 +-HP. Another 3.5 motor needs 85 lb injectors of fuel delivery to support 24psi 650+ HP
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Old 08-31-2010, 01:44 PM
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3.4 here with 438 RWHP and MUCH MORE fuel available than I need. CIS.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 08-31-2010, 01:57 PM
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This puppy is reported to use the stock euro headers.

BTY -- Talked to Larry at CISFLOWTECH this week and he said he just sent them 6 of his highest flow modified Fuel Distributors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zcoker View Post
I don't know if this site has been posted here before and it probably has yet I've never come across it: 627HP@5300 Torque: 658Lb/Ft(892Nm)@4600 on mainly stock 930 Euro components and on pump gas - well, 98 octane over there.

SpezialMotorer-Engine Development Click under project section.

I know that many here place solid limits on the CIS system and I'm just learning about it myself but this says otherwise.




If I know the Swedes like I do with bmw's, this is true information. We doubted a long time their claims on some of their bmw motors but they have some s38's over there pushing 1500hp and running 7's in the 1/4 mile - varied. I guess those long, cold winters over there afford them plenty of time to tinker and build these monsters. Very interesting to see some things taking way beyond the norm (like they always seem to do) in spite of the speculation and doubts. I sure would like to see more info on this build but the Swedes are quite tight lipped with their projects.
Old 08-31-2010, 04:27 PM
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