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mjmoran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Elk WA
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Help with vacuum/air lines

OK, so I just posted on the 911 tech forum, but someone here may be a better bet. So, here's the story in a nutshell:
In a cleaning frenzy this spring I pulled my engine (86 930). Whilst out, I decided to remove all the air pump assembly in its entirety. Now, I have a few "extra" ports, hoses and holes ... or so I think. As far as vacuum hoses go, I have two out of the distributor. one of them goes to the time switch then to the front of the throttle body. The other goes directly to another port on the back of the throttle body. There are now two unused ports on the throttle body which I plugged. There is a larger port under the intake manifold to the left of the throttle body that had a 25mm or so hose on it which went to the air injection. I have plugged this one. There is another similar sized port (see photo) which I do not recall where it goes to... The port is in the center of the photo pointing downwards. Any ideas where this goes?

Also, having a he$$ of a time getting the black elbow hose on. Any tricks? It was easy with the engine out and now...well I spent too much time trying today already.


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Michael
PCA-INWR
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R Gruppe PNW
Old 09-19-2010, 07:46 PM
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The hose is a real bich. I had pretty good luck by using a couple of very old tire irons to pry it on. If I remember right I put the rear facing end on first and used the tire irons to pry the forward end on last.
Old 09-20-2010, 04:39 AM
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Best tool I know of for removing or installing that elbow intake air hose while the origonal blow off housing is being used is a hose and cotter pin removal tool.

These tools have smooth edges so they don't tear up or damage a rubber hose, and you use them like a pry bar in the little loop on the end of a cotter pin to remove them after straightening out the other ends with needle nose pliers.

Use it sort of like you would a shoe horn, small prybar, or tire iron on difficult hoses.

Here's one from Sears.
Sears: Appliances, Tools, Electronics, Apparel and more from Craftsman, Kenmore, Diehard and other Leading Brands

Jegs and alot of other places have them too, just google hose and cotter pin puller.
Old 09-20-2010, 10:01 AM
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That open fitting in the middle of the photo goes to the intake manifold, it is manifold press. reference for the recirculating valve, Btw +1 on using a cotter pin removal tool on the intake elbow, But set it out in the sun first to soften it, Makes a big difference.




Lou / AERO DYNAMICS

Last edited by aerodyn930; 09-20-2010 at 10:18 AM.. Reason: more info
Old 09-20-2010, 10:14 AM
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Both problems solved. I had an "ah ha" moment after reading the replies today on both this and another forum. The port in the photo goes back, under the manifold and to another "Y" pipe that also goes to the recirc valve assembly. Problem solved. For some reason I just blocked it out, but makes perfect sense now!

And the elbow hose... forget the tool, just put the hose on while installing the assembly. I had to remove the assembly to install the hoses, just two bolts, a nut and a few hose clamps. She then slid on like butter... probably why it was so easy out of the car.

Now, for a final question:
There are two vacuum ports on the distributor. The one closest to the dizzy body goes to the time switch located center far left of the second photo. Then from the switch to a port on the throttle body. The second one is going directly to another port on the throttle body. This does not really make sense as they both are essentially going to the same place so retarding and advancing at the same time when the switch is open...I think...???

The manuel shows there to be a valve of some sort to connect it to inbetween the dizzy and the TB. On some earlier cars, the hose goes to a point on the breather, but my car does not have this option. Am I hooked up correctly or ???. Am I missing another piece that maybe came off with the smog pump?

Thank you all for your help so far.
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:45 PM
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"This does not really make sense as they both are essentially going to the same place so retarding and advancing at the same time when the switch is open...I think...???"

It does make sense because the top port is just above the throttle butterfly at idle. That one is the vacuum advance port and being above the butterfly at idle it doesn't see any vacuum so there is no vacuum advance then.

The bottom port is below the butterfly at idle so it sees full manifold vacuum at idle and that one is the vacuum retard port on your '86.
Configured like that the motor gets vacuum retard at idle and gradually looses it as the butterfly opens. It always sees some vacuum from the venturi effect of the throttle body until boost comes on, then it sees boost air pressure.

As you accelerate and the butterfly opens the top port becomes exposed to intake manifold and venturi effect vacuum and that makes the timing advance as long as the red vac advance hose is connected to the outer vacuum port on the distributor. That line is origonally red fabric covered and it goes through a mechanical thermo valve on your catalyst equipped 1986 car before it goes to the outer vacuum advance port on the distributor.

The purpose of that thermal valve under the airflow meter housing is to block vacuum advance until the motor warms up, and blocking vacuum advance retards timing and that raises exhaust temperature so the catalytic converter heats up faster and the car passes USA emissions allowing the 930 to be sold in the USA again in 1986.
That thermo valve lowers engine performance making the car more sluggish getting away from a stop because it removes vacuum advance until the motor is hot and if you don't have a catalytic converter then bypass it because it has no purpose then and should definately be bypassed.
You still have mechanical centrifical advance in the bottom of the distributor so there is always a little advance going on as rpms raise to around 3500 but it's not much.

The 12 volt vacuum solenoid in the second picture you mentioned goes in the blue vacuum retard line and it is there to block vacuum retard from going to the distributors inner retard pot for the fist minute or 2 after a cold start so the timing advances a little at idle to help raise the idle speed about 300 rpms.
When that valve opens and vacuum retard comes back, you'll notice the engine abruptly drop about 300 rpms. The auxilliary air valve that bypasses air around the throttle body when the motor is cold also raises the idle for a minute or 2 after a cold start.

Don't knock the hose/cotter pin removal tool till you try it...

It is made for water cooled engines that have not had a radiator hose removed from a cast aluminum fitting in years and the corrosion in the aluminum under the hose has stuck it on so you can't just pull or twist it off.
You push the rounded off pointed end in between the hose and corroded fitting and work it around the circumfrence to seperate it from the fitting.

It also helps to install stiff rubber hoses in tight areas like that CIS intake elbow hose if the blow off manifold is bolted in place.

It also prys out cotter pins easier than anything else and if you are mechaically inclined you will discover many other uses for it.
Old 09-20-2010, 07:33 PM
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Thanks for the detail!

And also, looks like my "tool for the month" will have to be a hose/cotter pin removal tool. I have a set of smaller fuel hose removal tools of different diameters and bends (they look like needle nose pliers with a funny tip). I will be giving the local Snap-On guy a call this week.

That's what you call that manifold pre TB, Blow Off Manifold. I like it.

I have never really spent much time wrenching my 930. This has been fun learning another engine, intake, exhaust system.
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Old 09-20-2010, 07:44 PM
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i used to have a snap-on one until most of my snap-on tools were stolen 14 years ago...

it's going to be around 3-4 times more expensive than any other one because you're paying for the snap-on name... and the snap-on handle is actually lower quality in my opinion.
Old 09-20-2010, 07:55 PM
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There is another option instead of Snap On, and from the tools I have gotten so far -- great quality, feel and looks. Check out this site: TOPTUL Distributor | Wren Hand Tools

Top Tul. I have some of the matte finish wrenches and they look and feel simillar to FACOM or Hazet.
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Michael
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Old 09-20-2010, 08:06 PM
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thanks, i saved the link.

Old 09-20-2010, 08:16 PM
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