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Garage Queen
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Full vs. Half-bay Intercooler
Gents,
I know there are several intercooler threads, but I cannot find any info on a comparison of full bay and half-bay ICs. I have an Andial(half-bay) and no A/C so I can add a full-bay unit. Is it worth changing to a full-bay intercooler?
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Stephanie My minions:'86 911 Targa 3.4, '87 930, '05 Lotus Elise, '19 Audi RS3, '13 Focus ST, '16 Focus RS |
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OFF THE BOOST PIPE NOW...
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mount Pleasant, South Carolina
Posts: 8,613
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If it's built right, I would think a full bay intercooler would give you better cooling than a half bay. Kolken used to have a page comparing various half bay intercoolers.
A half vs full intercooler comparison would be great, but with so many mfgs and one offs, it might be difficult. |
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I haven't seen any shoot-out data on any of the intercoolers out there. Data on why I would buy a different intercooler would be that it is cools the air xx more than my stock one, even after track heat soaking, and that it reduces turbo lag by xx more than my stock one.
I recall seeing square inches, depth, pressure drop numbers but who cares? I love the saying that a person who buys a drill doesn't want a drill, really... they want a hole. Kind of the same thing with car parts, in my book.
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Ken 1986 930, 1969 Mach1, 2003 540 Sport, 2016 R1200RS |
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Houston
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In a word "yes"....increased surface area from a full bay translates to a more efficient air cooling process.
I have designed a few 930 intercoolers in AutoCAD and then had them built and tested in my lab at work. The larger surface area designs are superior to the thicker designs. Yasin
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Ole Skool - wouldn't have it any other way |
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Fabspeed has a small flow chart on their website comparing several mfrs. including theirs.
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Blackbird Pilot
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The OC
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This is one thing to chew on, going full bay is an advantage with a shrouded setup to force air to take that path and the engine fan will pull air through it, if in doubt look at what the 935 air to air cars did. Force feed air to a 3" core (thinner than the 935 units but u won't have the flow they did to the IC) and you will be doing good, use a bell intercoolers core for a great flowing core (have one on the K3) and you will be doing good, heat soak less and after more laps and boost safely.
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Garage Queen
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Quote:
I cannot find a comparison on Fabspeed's website. I did find a comparison of Japanese intercoolers on Autospeed. Autospeed Intercooler Comparison My quest on this project is to help my car to deal with the temps in my area. Columbia, SC is still having highs of 92-98 degrees and these temps appear to effect my car on boost. After warming up, my car will boost strong. After a couple of strong pulls, the car is sluggish from the heat. I do not have this effect when the temps are cooler. I'm thinking a larger intercooler could help prevent or stave off heat soak. In theory, it should, but I'm trying to find real data to prove to myself it is worth the purchase.
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Stephanie My minions:'86 911 Targa 3.4, '87 930, '05 Lotus Elise, '19 Audi RS3, '13 Focus ST, '16 Focus RS |
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Location: Daytona Beach
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Good morning Stephanie, We have tested most of the intercoolers in the market will be happy to share the data, First, Is your current I/C long or short neck? , next do you have a seal between the I/C and the engine lid? , A photo of your engine would be nice,
I would like to help you answer the question regarding any improvements that the purchase of a different I/C will afford. Lou / AERO DYNAMICS |
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Crotchety Old Bastard
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THE most important thing is that whatever intercooler you have is properly shrouded AND that no other air is coming into the engine compartment uncontrolled. It is a compromise. The engine needs cooling air for both the intercooler and the cylinders. It also needs to injest air for power.
There simply must be a strong pull of air through the intercooler at all times. Obviously you don't want the intercooler to restrict air flow to the engine fan to the point that the cylinders are not adequately cooled. Using the largest and thinnest intercooler you can fit will accomplish this. Check the engine tin and seal up all the holes. Check the rear body seal where the shock towers are located, this can be a HUGE hole. Once all these things are done you can take a look at various intercooler core efficiencies. It simply does not matter how good the intercooler is if air is going around it.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds '78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8 |
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Location: Sacramento
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+1 slow&rusty's post #4 and Brian's post #9.
Thick IC's upper sections heat the air and the lower section then becomes less effective unless it has a long run to overcome. Then long runs create pressure drop. Getting the cooling air through the IC is also important. Look at the 993's. Porsche shrouded not only the IC but also the intake air as Brian is saying. However, other design issues are relevant. Every thing between the turbo's exit and the throttle plate can effect pressure drop including transitions, bends, and end tank size and design. Actual core construction also has in effect. However, in general more top surface area as slow&rusty notes it a plus. Then the sizing of the core is best matched to the power range of the car. To big and air velocity will suffer unnecessarily, to small and there will be a bigger pressure drop than is desirable in the upper HP range. Thus, a well designed half bay that is sized well for the motor might out perform a less than ideal full bay. I like this one a lot: ![]() An example of ducting the intake air so the intake only sees cool air and the IC gets as much of the cooling air flow as possible. ![]() Last edited by 911st; 09-26-2010 at 08:07 AM.. |
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longer and thicker is better. . . . i think you knew that already
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![]() Last edited by 911st; 09-25-2010 at 01:51 PM.. |
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Let's keep this out of the gutter please.
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Ole Skool - wouldn't have it any other way |
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Do you have any more photo's you can post of the installation as shown on this car?
It looks very well thought out.
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1988 Toyota 4Runner Gen1 1989 Porsche 930 1990 Porsche 964 1994 Toyota 4Runner Gen 2 |
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Location: Sacramento
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Sorry, Check some of the larger Intercooler threads. I think it belongs to Zeb930 or such.
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Location: PaloAlto Calif, IndianWells PalmDesert, Japan
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There are a lot of things to consider when equipping a vehicle with a intercooler.
You can't just throw a massive big ole honking intercooler on there. I mean you can, people do it. But it does not mean that they are increasing performance. You'll deffinitly change boost pressure at the manifold if you exceed a particular demension. And effect response and other areas. It depends on the materials being used, and concept. Normally one designs a system to work with a particular architecture and with in specific parameters. Beyond that as mentioned here demensions play into the equation, space, air flow. I think theories are great, but each firm spends it's own amount of time in terms of research and developement. Most the very elaborate or cars doing serious amounts of power or speed are not running off the shelf stuff, some might, but usually people develope a application specific to their requirements. So in short, it's pretty hard to say this or that system is better, perhaps more ideal. Anyways, there are a lot of factors involved, so it depends Porsche GAL on what you're requirements are. Good luck-
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Taze em..TAZE EM ALL!! A man that builds a thousend bridges is a bridge builder, but a man that sucks one ( blank ) is a ( blank ) sucker. It looks like the 4th of July from my rear view, how about from your view? |
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Garage Queen
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Quote:
Since I have removed the heating and A/C, the engine compartment is full of holes. I'm going to use aluminum sheeting to close these. Any words of wisdom on other techniques to close these? ![]() ![]() ![]() So, let me close these up. If I continue to have problems, what about a intercooler mist system? Seine Systems > MPC I also found this interesting article Intercooler Mist System Thanks so far for your guy's thoughts!
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Stephanie My minions:'86 911 Targa 3.4, '87 930, '05 Lotus Elise, '19 Audi RS3, '13 Focus ST, '16 Focus RS |
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Aluninum sheeting along with rtv sealant would work fine, close up all the openings, Check the area in front of the engine as this can be a 1" gap that runs full width of the engine compartment , Get under the car and look up in that area, Most cars show this defect. We use high density foam to seal this gap , Also behind the engine the rubber seal is usually destroyed by heat, replace with high temp silicone material,
![]() Intercooler mist systems can be used to restore some efficiency , There are some very good kits out there, As you continue your search for better Intercooling consider a temp. instrument (in/out), ![]() Good luck with your project, Lou / AERO DYNAMICS |
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1983 911 3.3L Turbo(YES, I know the turbo badge is on the right...had to be different!) 1996 Toyota Corolla(der 'clapper') |
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Superheated air for the factory set-up?
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1983 911 3.3L Turbo(YES, I know the turbo badge is on the right...had to be different!) 1996 Toyota Corolla(der 'clapper') |
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