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Garage Queen
 
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Full vs. Half-bay Intercooler

Gents,

I know there are several intercooler threads, but I cannot find any info on a comparison of full bay and half-bay ICs. I have an Andial(half-bay) and no A/C so I can add a full-bay unit.

Is it worth changing to a full-bay intercooler?

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Old 09-22-2010, 04:08 PM
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If it's built right, I would think a full bay intercooler would give you better cooling than a half bay. Kolken used to have a page comparing various half bay intercoolers.

A half vs full intercooler comparison would be great, but with so many mfgs and one offs, it might be difficult.
Old 09-22-2010, 04:39 PM
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I haven't seen any shoot-out data on any of the intercoolers out there. Data on why I would buy a different intercooler would be that it is cools the air xx more than my stock one, even after track heat soaking, and that it reduces turbo lag by xx more than my stock one.

I recall seeing square inches, depth, pressure drop numbers but who cares? I love the saying that a person who buys a drill doesn't want a drill, really... they want a hole. Kind of the same thing with car parts, in my book.
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Old 09-22-2010, 05:01 PM
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In a word "yes"....increased surface area from a full bay translates to a more efficient air cooling process.

I have designed a few 930 intercoolers in AutoCAD and then had them built and tested in my lab at work. The larger surface area designs are superior to the thicker designs.
Yasin
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Old 09-23-2010, 03:39 AM
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Fabspeed has a small flow chart on their website comparing several mfrs. including theirs.
Old 09-24-2010, 03:10 AM
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This is one thing to chew on, going full bay is an advantage with a shrouded setup to force air to take that path and the engine fan will pull air through it, if in doubt look at what the 935 air to air cars did. Force feed air to a 3" core (thinner than the 935 units but u won't have the flow they did to the IC) and you will be doing good, use a bell intercoolers core for a great flowing core (have one on the K3) and you will be doing good, heat soak less and after more laps and boost safely.
Old 09-24-2010, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6771911esses View Post
Fabspeed has a small flow chart on their website comparing several mfrs. including theirs.

I cannot find a comparison on Fabspeed's website. I did find a comparison of Japanese intercoolers on Autospeed.

Autospeed Intercooler Comparison

My quest on this project is to help my car to deal with the temps in my area. Columbia, SC is still having highs of 92-98 degrees and these temps appear to effect my car on boost. After warming up, my car will boost strong. After a couple of strong pulls, the car is sluggish from the heat. I do not have this effect when the temps are cooler.

I'm thinking a larger intercooler could help prevent or stave off heat soak. In theory, it should, but I'm trying to find real data to prove to myself it is worth the purchase.
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Old 09-24-2010, 04:58 AM
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Good morning Stephanie, We have tested most of the intercoolers in the market will be happy to share the data, First, Is your current I/C long or short neck? , next do you have a seal between the I/C and the engine lid? , A photo of your engine would be nice,
I would like to help you answer the question regarding any improvements that the purchase of a different I/C will afford.

Lou / AERO DYNAMICS
Old 09-24-2010, 05:55 AM
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THE most important thing is that whatever intercooler you have is properly shrouded AND that no other air is coming into the engine compartment uncontrolled. It is a compromise. The engine needs cooling air for both the intercooler and the cylinders. It also needs to injest air for power.
There simply must be a strong pull of air through the intercooler at all times.
Obviously you don't want the intercooler to restrict air flow to the engine fan to the point that the cylinders are not adequately cooled. Using the largest and thinnest intercooler you can fit will accomplish this.
Check the engine tin and seal up all the holes. Check the rear body seal where the shock towers are located, this can be a HUGE hole.
Once all these things are done you can take a look at various intercooler core efficiencies. It simply does not matter how good the intercooler is if air is going around it.
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Old 09-24-2010, 06:55 AM
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+1 slow&rusty's post #4 and Brian's post #9.

Thick IC's upper sections heat the air and the lower section then becomes less effective unless it has a long run to overcome. Then long runs create pressure drop.

Getting the cooling air through the IC is also important. Look at the 993's. Porsche shrouded not only the IC but also the intake air as Brian is saying.

However, other design issues are relevant. Every thing between the turbo's exit and the throttle plate can effect pressure drop including transitions, bends, and end tank size and design. Actual core construction also has in effect.

However, in general more top surface area as slow&rusty notes it a plus.

Then the sizing of the core is best matched to the power range of the car. To big and air velocity will suffer unnecessarily, to small and there will be a bigger pressure drop than is desirable in the upper HP range.

Thus, a well designed half bay that is sized well for the motor might out perform a less than ideal full bay.


I like this one a lot:



An example of ducting the intake air so the intake only sees cool air and the IC gets as much of the cooling air flow as possible.


Last edited by 911st; 09-26-2010 at 07:07 AM..
Old 09-24-2010, 09:00 AM
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longer and thicker is better. . . . i think you knew that already
Old 09-24-2010, 09:31 AM
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Last edited by 911st; 09-25-2010 at 12:51 PM..
Old 09-24-2010, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
longer and thicker is better. . . . i think you knew that already
Let's keep this out of the gutter please.
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Old 09-25-2010, 06:43 AM
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Do you have any more photo's you can post of the installation as shown on this car?
It looks very well thought out.

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Old 09-25-2010, 02:03 PM
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Sorry, Check some of the larger Intercooler threads. I think it belongs to Zeb930 or such.
Old 09-25-2010, 02:18 PM
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There are a lot of things to consider when equipping a vehicle with a intercooler.

You can't just throw a massive big ole honking intercooler on there. I mean you can, people do it. But it does not mean that they are increasing performance.

You'll deffinitly change boost pressure at the manifold if you exceed a particular demension.
And effect response and other areas.

It depends on the materials being used, and concept. Normally one designs a system to work with a particular architecture and with in specific parameters.

Beyond that as mentioned here demensions play into the equation, space, air flow.

I think theories are great, but each firm spends it's own amount of time in terms of research and developement.

Most the very elaborate or cars doing serious amounts of power or speed are not running off the shelf stuff, some might, but usually people develope a application specific to their requirements. So in short, it's pretty hard to say this or that system is better, perhaps more ideal.

Anyways, there are a lot of factors involved, so it depends Porsche GAL on what you're requirements are.

Good luck-
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Old 09-25-2010, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
THE most important thing is that whatever intercooler you have is properly shrouded AND that no other air is coming into the engine compartment uncontrolled. It is a compromise. The engine needs cooling air for both the intercooler and the cylinders. It also needs to injest air for power.
There simply must be a strong pull of air through the intercooler at all times.
Obviously you don't want the intercooler to restrict air flow to the engine fan to the point that the cylinders are not adequately cooled. Using the largest and thinnest intercooler you can fit will accomplish this.
Check the engine tin and seal up all the holes. Check the rear body seal where the shock towers are located, this can be a HUGE hole.
Once all these things are done you can take a look at various intercooler core efficiencies. It simply does not matter how good the intercooler is if air is going around it.

Since I have removed the heating and A/C, the engine compartment is full of holes. I'm going to use aluminum sheeting to close these. Any words of wisdom on other techniques to close these?







So, let me close these up. If I continue to have problems, what about a intercooler mist system?

Seine Systems > MPC

I also found this interesting article

Intercooler Mist System


Thanks so far for your guy's thoughts!
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Old 09-26-2010, 10:08 AM
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Aluninum sheeting along with rtv sealant would work fine, close up all the openings, Check the area in front of the engine as this can be a 1" gap that runs full width of the engine compartment , Get under the car and look up in that area, Most cars show this defect. We use high density foam to seal this gap , Also behind the engine the rubber seal is usually destroyed by heat, replace with high temp silicone material,



Intercooler mist systems can be used to restore some efficiency , There are some very good kits out there, As you continue your search for better Intercooling consider a temp. instrument (in/out),

Good luck with your project, Lou / AERO DYNAMICS
Old 09-26-2010, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr View Post
Do you have any more photo's you can post of the installation as shown on this car?
It looks very well thought out.
Would LOVE to know where I can get that cool-air intake in the picture.
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Old 09-26-2010, 12:48 PM
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Superheated air for the factory set-up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerodyn930 View Post
Aluninum sheeting along with rtv sealant would work fine, close up all the openings, Check the area in front of the engine as this can be a 1" gap that runs full width of the engine compartment , Get under the car and look up in that area, Most cars show this defect. We use high density foam to seal this gap , Also behind the engine the rubber seal is usually destroyed by heat, replace with high temp silicone material,



Intercooler mist systems can be used to restore some efficiency , There are some very good kits out there, As you continue your search for better Intercooling consider a temp. instrument (in/out),

Good luck with your project, Lou / AERO DYNAMICS
While I do agree that as much air is to be forced through the intercooler, but when the system is completely sealed, isn't what's going into the engine's intake superheated air from the engine AND intercooler?

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Old 09-26-2010, 12:51 PM
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