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My 1978 wont start...help

Hi

Haven driven just about 35 miles in my (to me: new) 1978 930.

I drove it yesterday afternon. It drives fine.

Today about 10am I was headed out. The car cranks, but it does not fire up.

It smells a bit of fuel -I did not touch the gas pedal...I really didn't

I am new to 930, but not new to 911 (Carrera 3.0)

Please don't tell me to take out the plugs..., since I just landed here in the US and tools/garage are not readily at hand.

Suggestions please.

Jesper


Last edited by jsveb; 09-30-2010 at 10:02 AM.. Reason: spelling
Old 09-30-2010, 09:42 AM
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Hi guys

I know I am impatient here, but imagine if you had bought the car of your dreams, and only got to drive it for one day (35 miles total) and then it wouldn't start.

I need help -please.

Jesper
Old 09-30-2010, 10:24 AM
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Check for spark first, Pull the coil wire from the distributor cap and carefully hold it(using insulated pliers) about 1/2" from ground while someone cranks the motor, Let us know what you find.

Lou / AERO DYNAMICS
Old 09-30-2010, 10:35 AM
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Jesper - did you check the sticky for my car won't start? Lots of good ideas there!

Check the obvious things first - fuel pump fuse, overboost switch etc. Who knows how old your fuses are, and they can look OK at first glance but may be crap (as I recently found out!).

Start by loosening the air filter over the metering plate, pulling the green safety plug on the back, and depressing the meter plate to see if you're pumps come on. If not, ground the overboost switch and try again.
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1982 930, K27-7200, Ruf wheels, Leask WUR, Tial WG, WEGO IV AFR, RarlyL8 headers & single out muffler, TK I/C
2011 R350 winter beater
2004 BMW R1100S

Last edited by Richard930; 09-30-2010 at 11:26 AM..
Old 09-30-2010, 10:37 AM
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Thank you guys.

I am heading out there right now. With a print out of the stickies -sometimes I just don't see the forest because of all the trees.

I'll report back

Jesper
Old 09-30-2010, 10:48 AM
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Hi
I checked all the connection on the relays fuel pumps and overboost relay.
I then tried to start the car.
It fired for just about half a second or so, then nothing. After this I could smell fuel -not much but enough to be sure.
This leads me to conclude:
1. There is spark
2. The engine gets fuel

Is the engine simply flooding?
Do I have to worry about vapor lock?

Jesper
Old 09-30-2010, 04:46 PM
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If the engine is flooding. Would it help to remove the two fuel pump relays (the two aft ones in the front compartment - confirm?)?
Old 09-30-2010, 05:07 PM
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+1 on the plunger check.
Old 09-30-2010, 05:18 PM
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If its firing for a second or two that's probably just some residual fuel leaking into the cylinders.

You really need to confirm the fuel pumps are coming on when the metering plate is deflected. If not, double check the fuse again, and then ground the overboost wire (my $$ is on one of these two culprits).
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1982 930, K27-7200, Ruf wheels, Leask WUR, Tial WG, WEGO IV AFR, RarlyL8 headers & single out muffler, TK I/C
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Old 09-30-2010, 05:35 PM
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Hi
I admit being a rookie, hence my questions, just to be absolutely sure on what to do next.

I can check the fuel pumps by:
1. Disconnecting the contact (green??) at the air plate sensor, plunger?
2. Push down on the Air plate sensor, plunger?

By using the number 2 method wont I be dumping fuel into the cylinders?

I hope to be able to check this in the forenoon tomorrow.
I am going to an OKTOBERFEST in the evening, none of the Germans attending are driving Porsches, so I want to take it...

Jesper
Old 09-30-2010, 06:09 PM
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Yes, unscrew the 2 bolts holding the air filter to the top of the metering assembly. With the ignition on, and the green plug on the back of the metering assembly disconnected, push the metering plate down. You should hear the fuel pumps come on immediately, and if you do - release the metering plate. You will be pumping some fuel but it won't do any harm if you release it as soon as you hear the pumps - just don't hold it down for more than it takes to confirm the pumps are working.

If the pumps do not come on, disconnect the wire to the overboost switch on the rear left of the BOV assembly and ground it (the intercooler bolt on the left hand side worked for me), and try pushing the metering plate down again. If the pumps come on, you know that the overboost switch is bad - and you can drive it with the wire grounded until you get a new one.

Again - check your fuel pump fuse as it can look OK but not be. If the fuses look in any way corroded or just plain old - replace them all before they cause problems.

This shouldn't take more than five minutes and if you don't find the problem I'm sure there will be some more suggestions.

Good luck
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1982 930, K27-7200, Ruf wheels, Leask WUR, Tial WG, WEGO IV AFR, RarlyL8 headers & single out muffler, TK I/C
2011 R350 winter beater
2004 BMW R1100S
Old 09-30-2010, 06:38 PM
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Good morning guys

Today is gonna be a good day.
I walked out to the car to try and crank it up. It fired like yesterday, for just about half a second or so. Then lazy smoke coming aout of the exhaust, and a slight but noticeable smell of fuel.

I have decided today is a good day. I've got a 930 to work on an today I have got the time to do it.

Thanks

I'll report back

Jesper
Old 10-01-2010, 06:24 AM
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Pump and plunger -check

Hi

This is the engine in question:



I went out and did as you said:



I took out the inlet manifold, so that I could better reach the relevant bits.


I am kidding -off course,
It is just another manifold, that belongs to a "different story" that never really took off -yet. I used for reference.

Seriously, I started doing what you suggested, but I simply couln't reach in there with out removing the IC. While doing that I noticed some wires that was broken off. Some is for temp probes in the IC inlet, one other is maybe for pressure. in the IC???

Sorry for the out of focus CAM. My shop cam is old.

The inlet is dirty with this greyish stuff. On the photo you can only see some of it. It is in the 6 to 9 o clock position in the inlet pipe and all the way down onto the throttle plate.
Is this Normal?


The yellow wire in the picture has broken off the back off the IC (as mentioned) is this maybe for the stock boost gauge, that when I could drive it, was pegged all the way to the right (1+ BAR)?

Well back to the tests you recommended:

I pulled the green plug and turned on the ignition. I could hear the pumps easily.
I then put the plug back on and gently pushed down on the plunger. I could hear the pumps come on immediatly, BUT I could also hear a clicking sound on the left side of the engine near the CDI and relays.
What is this clicking?

I guess we have established that the pumps work, but what do I do now???

Thanks

Jesper
Old 10-01-2010, 07:33 AM
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tried again -still deads, smells fuel...

Thank you JFairman

I think my relay is black then.
Here is whay it looks like:


What would be my next move?

I am leaning towards ignition. Could t just be fouled plugs? I wouldn't think so myself.

My engine does not have the stock BOV assembly. Infact I can't find a BOV of any kind in there -hmm.

Jesper
Old 10-01-2010, 09:14 AM
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What would happen if I unplugged the green plug to let the pumps run, and then tried to fire it up?

Jesper
Old 10-01-2010, 09:15 AM
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I unplugged the green plug to let the pumps run, and tried to crank it -Nothing. Well, it cranks fine but doesn't start. I can still smell fuel.
I guess the fuel part has been ruled out.

Afterwards I went and took a sparkplug from my Carrera 3.0 engine that is out.
I put this spark plug in the RH rear lead (do not remember the #īs).

There is a nice spark -this is getting weird...

Could it be that the plugs are just completely fouled?

The bad thing is, I don't have the tools to take out the plugs with the engine in the car.

Do any of you know if I can buy this in a local store (lower AL)?
Or do I have to order it here on PP?
I would really prefer to get it today

What spark plugs should I buy?

If I am to buy some future security, what more should I buy: relays, plugs etc.?

thanks again

Jesper

Last edited by jsveb; 10-01-2010 at 10:09 AM.. Reason: spellin -again
Old 10-01-2010, 10:08 AM
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don't have the original one.

I'll try to get my hand on an smaller extension, The one I got is to long for this job.

Thanks

Jesper
Old 10-01-2010, 01:21 PM
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It was a good day...

I told you in the morning, this was going to be a good day.
No, she aint singing yet, but she might as well.

I took out one of the spark plugs RR. It sparked just nicely -hmm.
It gets fuel. It gets spark. It should run.

It is basic knowledge that just kept coming to mind. One of my friends dad always said something like that ( in danish offcource).
This made me think -again. I had just seen the spark. This part was conclusive.

I had seen indications on fuel. I had heard the pumps run, smelled the fuel
I realized the thing I doubted the most was fuel.
I bactracked the things I had done today, and decided to check the pumps again.
This time I disconnected a fan that cools on the AC unit in the rear. A lot more quiet, thank you.

I then thought I only could hear one pump. Usually (in helos) you can always hear, at least, a slight difference in sound. One of them wasn't working.
I checked the front fuse and relay panel. After some going back and forth. I can conclude that the relay for the: Zweite Kraftstoffpumpe nichts fungiert -scheisse.

Well I am ordering new relays after this posting.
Are these relays available only as Porsche units or can they be bought at an Autoshop in Lower AL?
What else should I order now that I am cranked up?

I told you it would be a great day...

honestly what are the odds, that this happens after driving just 35 miles.
To good to be tru?, I'll find out.

Enjoy your weekend

Jesper

Last edited by jsveb; 10-01-2010 at 07:13 PM..
Old 10-01-2010, 07:10 PM
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Just a question to others in the forum, can this relay be jumped? I know on the CIS Golf's and Rabbit's you could jump the relay to get yourself home.
Old 10-01-2010, 07:18 PM
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Thank you Shadetree930

I'll keep that in mind. I guess you'll find out when post my experience NLT thursday.

Appreciate the offer.

IMR-Merlin: About jumping it. When I recieve my new relays. I'll open the old one up. I bet we can answer that question by then.
Looking forward to seeing your project evolve.

Jesper

Old 10-01-2010, 07:40 PM
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