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Kennedy Stage 2 clutch/pp install - Adjustment FAIL

Just spent weekend installing Kennedy stage 2 clutch/pp package, along with usual new crap - pilot, throw out, ring gear.

The clutch cable was less than one year old, so did not replace.

The clutch fork looked great, no cracks on inspection

The install went smoothly, no issues, clutch fork engaged TOB good.

When things go as smoothly as they did, i get worried.

Sure enough, Have just spent several hours today with my buddy trying to get the clutch adjusted Car will not enter reverse, and can occasionaly barely get in 1st/2, but no other grears. Car's ass end is on jacks, so yes, we are trying to engage with motor running and wheels do turn when manage to get in 1st (not often)

SO FAR:
We have run the rear adjustment bolt up and down through range, as well as the front clevis pin thread up to max and NOTHING.

The clutch pedal is very stiff and feels like the pressure plate is depressing, but will simply not go in grear.

What am i missing here???

Those of you with a Stage 2 KEP package, how stiff is the pedal? Could there still be an issue with the fork even if it look great?

Could the clutch cable be bad after less than one year of use in a car with a stiff PP to begin with?

When i parked the car Friday to start project, car running and shifting great... i was replacing due to a slipping clutch.

Any suggestions welcome or i may be missing Turbopalooza this weekend

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'79 930/934 replica
80 RSR-look(Now in Sicily)
914/6 2.7 (Projekt 908/3)
1965 Karman Ghia-Class winner 2007 Carrera Panamericana/Ducati 900ss/GhezziBrian STW
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Last edited by juicersr; 10-11-2010 at 02:28 AM..
Old 10-10-2010, 07:54 PM
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Did you remove the keeper clips on the pressure plate ?
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Old 10-10-2010, 08:00 PM
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The fork may not be engaging correctly
Check it for full range of motion
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Old 10-10-2010, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboo934 View Post
Did you remove the keeper clips on the pressure plate ?
Rob!!!

I was doing this with a buddy who has done a lot of 911 clutch installs, but no KEP units.

So, as my heart sinks, i have to ask, What keeper clips? Do u have a pix? Is this something specific to the kennedy unit, as i didnt see them on my sachs when i installed it last year.
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'79 930/934 replica
80 RSR-look(Now in Sicily)
914/6 2.7 (Projekt 908/3)
1965 Karman Ghia-Class winner 2007 Carrera Panamericana/Ducati 900ss/GhezziBrian STW
D-Zug Produkte/D-Zug.com
Old 10-10-2010, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9dreizig View Post
The fork may not be engaging correctly
Check it for full range of motion
Thanks todd, how much motion should on see on the lever arm when the clutch pedal is depressed?

I am still curious about these 'keeper clips' that Rob talks about
This is the first i have heard of them and neither me nor my buddy saw anything that needed to be removed. I spoke with the guys at kennedy a couple of times and none of them mentioned 'keeper clips'
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'79 930/934 replica
80 RSR-look(Now in Sicily)
914/6 2.7 (Projekt 908/3)
1965 Karman Ghia-Class winner 2007 Carrera Panamericana/Ducati 900ss/GhezziBrian STW
D-Zug Produkte/D-Zug.com
Old 10-10-2010, 09:58 PM
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My pedal feels firm but not too bad.
Old 10-10-2010, 09:59 PM
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They some times use a small U shape clip for shipping. My Sachs had them, first time I had ever seen them. Small paper instructed to remove them, had I not found that I might have left them in.
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Old 10-10-2010, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboo934 View Post
They some times use a small U shape clip for shipping. My Sachs had them, first time I had ever seen them. Small paper instructed to remove them, had I not found that I might have left them in.
Didnt exactly scrutinize the PP, but nothing looked out of place. Guess i will call Kennedy in am to see if there was something i didnt do.

What would allow fairly stiff pressure on the clutch pedal, movement of the cable and lever arm, but no disengagement of the clutch? If the fork were broke, wouldnt it have very little pressure, if at all? Just doesnt make sense.
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'79 930/934 replica
80 RSR-look(Now in Sicily)
914/6 2.7 (Projekt 908/3)
1965 Karman Ghia-Class winner 2007 Carrera Panamericana/Ducati 900ss/GhezziBrian STW
D-Zug Produkte/D-Zug.com
Old 10-10-2010, 10:36 PM
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Some pix from my weekend of fun for your amusement

All azz and balls


At least EFI makes this easier


Gee, do you think this is why street driving was such a PIA... thanks PO


A flywheel about to go supernova.... spider cracks all over the place.


How high can u get??


Rob, can u see any clips on the PP when u enlarge this??
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'79 930/934 replica
80 RSR-look(Now in Sicily)
914/6 2.7 (Projekt 908/3)
1965 Karman Ghia-Class winner 2007 Carrera Panamericana/Ducati 900ss/GhezziBrian STW
D-Zug Produkte/D-Zug.com
Old 10-10-2010, 11:03 PM
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My stage two didn't have any clips. Pedal is firm, but not too bad.

Could the TOB be hanging up on the guide tube? Did you lube it up at all before installing the TOB?
Old 10-11-2010, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A930Rocket View Post
My stage two didn't have any clips. Pedal is firm, but not too bad.

Could the TOB be hanging up on the guide tube? Did you lube it up at all before installing the TOB?
I was under the car while my friend wriggled the motor onto the tranny. The two seemed to mate correctly as we were careful to make sure the clutch finger were engaging behind the TOB, which it seemed to do. It all came together in the final inch with a nice satisfying 'clunk'. Goose grease was applied liberally in all the right places

Would the tranny and motor physically be able to come together if the TOB were hanging up on the guide tube? Would the wheels turn if the splines were not engaging the clutch fully?
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'79 930/934 replica
80 RSR-look(Now in Sicily)
914/6 2.7 (Projekt 908/3)
1965 Karman Ghia-Class winner 2007 Carrera Panamericana/Ducati 900ss/GhezziBrian STW
D-Zug Produkte/D-Zug.com

Last edited by juicersr; 10-11-2010 at 02:28 AM..
Old 10-11-2010, 01:45 AM
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Any votes for a broken or chipped clutch release fork????

Would a chipped clutch release fork act like this? Would u still have a lot of clutch pedal pressure if the clutch release fork were not working correctly?
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'79 930/934 replica
80 RSR-look(Now in Sicily)
914/6 2.7 (Projekt 908/3)
1965 Karman Ghia-Class winner 2007 Carrera Panamericana/Ducati 900ss/GhezziBrian STW
D-Zug Produkte/D-Zug.com
Old 10-11-2010, 01:55 AM
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clutch

i have a kep stage two clutch package in my car. did you ensure that the throwout bearing is properly engaged with the clutch fork..before inststalling the engine. it will mate up fine but it is easy for the bearing to rotate enough to not properly engage. i did not have any clips on mineand with everything properly in place it should adjust ptoperly. i have broken a fork before..one side and the clutch would not disengage. good luck!
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Old 10-11-2010, 02:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lin7310948 View Post
i have a kep stage two clutch package in my car. did you ensure that the throwout bearing is properly engaged with the clutch fork..before inststalling the engine. it will mate up fine but it is easy for the bearing to rotate enough to not properly engage. i did not have any clips on mineand with everything properly in place it should adjust ptoperly. i have broken a fork before..one side and the clutch would not disengage. good luck!
Thanks, despite the fact the i watched as the motor and tranny were mated, i guess this could have happened. Would u still have pressure on the clutch pedal if this were the case???

BTW, how do you "ensure that the TOB is properly engaged with the clutch fork before installing the engine"? Any tricks on getting the damn thing engaged properly if this is indeed the case, as i looks like i have a second engine pull in my future before Turbopalooza weekend

Lin731, how stiff should my pedal pressure be with this KEP stage 2 set-up? The amount of pressure i have at the moment will have my left leg looking like Schwarzenger's in a week or two.

Thanks for all of your responses on this guys
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'79 930/934 replica
80 RSR-look(Now in Sicily)
914/6 2.7 (Projekt 908/3)
1965 Karman Ghia-Class winner 2007 Carrera Panamericana/Ducati 900ss/GhezziBrian STW
D-Zug Produkte/D-Zug.com
Old 10-11-2010, 02:20 AM
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i always ensure ...with a flashlight shining through the opening in the transaxle, on the starter side that the fork and bearing stay properly engaged. once you have tension with the clutch cable it will stay in place. but until there is tension on the clutch activating arm i suppose that there is little pressure on the mechanism and the bearing can rotate. always ensure proper engagment before installing the engine and transaxle into the chassis. i am sure that the pedal resistance is higher than the norm, and, especially with a shortbell non assisted actuating arm. if you are using a longbell with the spring assist i would not think that the pressure would be as much. maybe i have just built up my leg strength??? also have you checked to ensure that the pedal box clutch parts are functioning properly...check that before removing the engine again. also, you might want to call Monty at KEP and ask about the clips or further advice.
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Old 10-11-2010, 05:00 AM
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something else. i just looked at your clutch package installed? does this package require an extended throwout bearing? my transaxle is a shortbell and i do not need the extended throwout bearing but maybe the longbell requires???? just a thought.
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Old 10-11-2010, 05:14 AM
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Justin : they would be coverd by the ring gear if they'er on there.Seeing that you left your trans in the car makes it harder to insure that the bearing hasn't slipped off one ear. Take a small mirror or a boarscope and have a look see, good luck.
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Old 10-11-2010, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboo934 View Post
Seeing that you left your trans in the car makes it harder to insure that the bearing hasn't slipped off one ear.
+1...release fork not properly engaged in the TO bearing would certainly explain your problem. I haven't ever done an engine-only drop, but it seems like dealing with this issue is one of the main reasons why many people suggest dropping them together. Good luck getting it sorted, and hope to see you this weekend.
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Last edited by jwasbury; 10-11-2010 at 07:34 AM..
Old 10-11-2010, 07:32 AM
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As mentioned, pull the engin and trans as one, seperate and then verify you have the clutch fork lined up on the TOB ears. The clutch fork shaft will rotate when the fork slips in behind the TOB ears. I have a heck of time doing it on the ground, so I'm not sure how it can be done in the car. It can take from 5 minutes to an hour sometimes to get it to line up properly (but maybe that's just me ). Look through the starter hole and/or the opennig on the other side of the trans to see if it's connected properly.

It might be engaged, but only on one ear and it's binding/cocking on the guide tube?
Old 10-11-2010, 08:34 AM
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Thanks for all your help guys.

I think the consensus here (and with my friend that helped ) becomes more clear that the clutch fork is not engaging the TBO properly.

We have sourced a boroscope and will be taking a peak this afternoon/ evening to verify what already appears to be a foregone conclusion, seeing how difficult a time u guys have with what took us about 10 minutes and seemed quite easy Like i said, i was worried when something that should have been hard wasnt.

Anyhow, will keep u guys posted... just got pull the motor.... again... Friday afternoon... the first day of Turbopalooza I'm gonna get the car there this weekend come hell or highwater

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'79 930/934 replica
80 RSR-look(Now in Sicily)
914/6 2.7 (Projekt 908/3)
1965 Karman Ghia-Class winner 2007 Carrera Panamericana/Ducati 900ss/GhezziBrian STW
D-Zug Produkte/D-Zug.com
Old 10-11-2010, 09:07 AM
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