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rubber bushing 930 -78 ??

I've discovered this anomaly on both sides, it is normal. or should I switch connector

Regards John
Old 10-18-2010, 01:45 AM
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Time for some new bushings.
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79 911SC RoW
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:00 AM
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Turbo Hooligan
 
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worn out spring plate bushings. normal. just replace and you'll be good for another 20 years.
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:01 AM
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they are difficult to change, and has some good tips?

regards John
Old 10-18-2010, 06:34 AM
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It's easy enough to do. Just pull the spring plate cover, clean out the old bushing and reinstall a new one. It might be tight going on, so some silicone spray might be needed.

If your lucky, you might just be able to pull the cover and not the part that the torison bar goes into.
Old 10-18-2010, 09:10 AM
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Smart quod bastardus
 
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Look into replacing them with the poly bronze bushings from Elephant racing. I just did mine last winter and thought the ride might become very harsh. But honestly, it is not very different at all when driving--- even over ruff roads.
The advantages of precise suspension control and almost zero friction in the control arms means your springs and shocks work better. Corner balancing is more precise too.
Just my opinion since you are gonna be in there now anyway.

Good luck.
Fred
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"

Last edited by fredmeister; 10-18-2010 at 09:35 AM..
Old 10-18-2010, 09:32 AM
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The rubber bushings cold flow over time and this causes the sags. There are several options. Consider that all will require labor and an alignment/corner balance. Your labor can be free if you are good with tools. Nothing too difficult but you will probably run into other things to do while completing this project. If you have thought about upgrading torsion bars, Now is the time.

Also, if the rear is this bad your front bushings are likely the same.

The options (use the search function for more specific details on each)

1. Swap the spring plates L to R and all will be good for a long time. Cost effective. Time consuming.

2. ER poly-bronze. Most expensive. Great ride quality. Zerk fittings for easy maintenance. Best paired with increased torsion bars such that the extra ease in suspension movement can be maximized.

3. Poly-graphite (otherwise known as plastic). <$100 in parts. require much more labor to fit. Best if turned on a lathe to size correctly such they are concentric and bind free. Known to be temperature dependent. Known to groan, squeak and pop depending on lubrication levels and how much grease has squished out.

btw, your problem is VERY common. Most owners never consider this a wear item.
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:21 AM
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It appears that some of you responders have not actually replaced these bushings yourself.

It is not a slam dunk as implied, they do not just slide out or off. It is a messy, time consuming project.

There are bushings on each side of the spring plates, they are vulcanized in place. You will need to remove them by carving, scraping, melting, swearing, and burning yourself, before all is said and done.

Then you will need to sand the surfaces nice and smooth before you can install anything new.

Cleaning out the bore in the body is not too bad, as well as the bore in the removable plate.

I installed poly graphite bushings, they fit just fine right out of the box, no machining or trimming was required. Yes they squeak, yes they groan, but after 35K miles they look as good as new!

Mark
Old 10-18-2010, 04:01 PM
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I've done it a few times on my cars. It's not too bad compared to other projects, but you're right in that they don't just slide off and slip on.
Old 10-18-2010, 07:06 PM
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Oh come on!? You just do not have the right technique. The process of removing rubber bushings takes just a few minutes per side. Yes, I have done this on various cars over the past decade.

Once you have the spring plates removed (or a-arms) you apply heat to the inside bore. A propane torch will work but takes longer. I use a rosebud tip on an oxy-acetylene torch. When you see a whisp of smoke and hear a slight sizzle you simply grab the rubber with your gloved hand and twist off. This leaves just a thin layer of rubber residue that comes off effortlessly with a wire wheel.

No issues. No fuss. Yes, this is manual labor but really easy in comparison to other things on the car.
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Old 10-19-2010, 06:20 PM
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Yeh, with the right tools (i.e. a big torch) the job would be soooo much easier!
I was a little concerned about too much heat on the machined splines, as I suspect they are heat treated, but I could be all wet here.
Mark
Old 10-20-2010, 09:45 AM
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My two cents:

This is a big can of worms, needs to be done, and is not going to be cheap.

If the rear is like that, the front probably has the torsion bars resting on metal and the bars as well as the bushings will need to be replaced. As the rear has gone so far you may also have damaged the rear torsion bars to.

This is a good time to redo all bushings and if you do not already have Bilstein shocks, upgrade (don't all 930's). Otherwise if you go to do it later it will throw your ride height off.

Elephant racing has replacement rubber bushings if you want a zero maintenance more stock solution. I would add that if you do this, they should be supper glued back onto the spring plates so they are installed more like the stock bonded rubber bushings. Or they will move inside the bore instead of twisting. This is evidenced by squeaking over larger bumps taken at a diagonal like when entering a parking lot. If allowed to do this they will ware prematurely as rubber is never meant to be a bearing surffice. Not sure I would use any lubricant other than soap to install them in the outer races. That is just my opinion.

It is not an easy job. To do it right requires re alignment and re balancing the car (cost $500-900). If you are replacing your shocks, doing the rubber bushings on the sway bars while they are off, and using ER replacement rubber, doing this yourself could be a $2000+ job.
Old 10-20-2010, 12:55 PM
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An easy way to remove rubber bushing is with a simple drill. Drill a couple say 3/16's holes through the rubber near the actual sleeve. If you apply pressure to the bit it will start to walk itself around the rubber between the sleeve. Sometimes the rubber will actual walk itself out. Takes some work but no fancy tools needed.

I used to a lot of GM stuff and could get a stuck bushing out in 2 minutes using the above no matter how big or stuck.

If it gives difficulty simply drill a few more holes till she pops out. I hate the torch method as it is a mess and stinks the place up.
Old 10-20-2010, 01:34 PM
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^^^^^ + 1. That's the way I do it.
Old 10-20-2010, 03:14 PM
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Oh i did not imply the job was easy, but it can be done yourself with some elbow grease. I do all my own mechancial work on the car, and this was a nice winter project for me. You will need to do a full corner balance and alighnment when done, and like suggested you should plan on torsion bars and shocks at this time so that you dont pay for corner balance and alignment again later.
I just really like the ride and results with the polybronze. It was nice seeing the control arms move so freely with near zero friction with the new bushings and no noise. Just have to remeber to grease them once in a while.
No biggie to me.
Plus the car does not exhibit a slight jerk or settling anymore on track days when transitioning in turns like it did with the rubber bushings. I could feel the rubber bushings compressing until they bottomed out and it was uneasy feeling thru the esses at the Glen and Mid Ohio. See the video in my signature below, which was with the old rubber bushings.
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"

Last edited by fredmeister; 10-20-2010 at 03:25 PM..
Old 10-20-2010, 03:21 PM
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I have Smart Racing spring plate bushings. I think they are Poly-Graphite. They are a REALLY hard, black plastic. They were much harder than the urethane stuff that was in there before.

I am very happy with them, as I wait for Rebel Racing to make some rear bearings. The Poly-Graphite give a firm ride, but friction-free and quiet, not like the old Urethane (very noisy and sticky). My mechanic turned them round inside and outside on a lathe and sized them for no binding.

Oh, and they are cheap!
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Old 10-20-2010, 05:08 PM
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Is this something new or just the race version of the Weltmister plastic busings.

Cheap and non squeak has my attention.
Old 10-20-2010, 07:48 PM
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I do not know, they were recommended by my mechanic but the words "Poly-Graphite" were not really mentioned. I asked Clint at Rebel and he thought it probably was poly-graphite or at least had graphite embedded in another hard plastic.

From what I hear on the forums, they are only as good as the installer. (Turning them round)
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1971 chassis, 2.7RS spec MFI engine, suspension mods, lightened

Suspension by Rebel Racing, Serviced by TLG Auto, Brakes by PMB Performance
http://www.flickr.com/photos/max_911_fahrer/
Old 10-20-2010, 08:16 PM
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Ok, dumb question. Is there any way to check the size of the bars on the car? This would make planning easier. I already searched but could not find any info over it here (neither in bentley or in any of my books)?
Old 10-20-2010, 08:39 PM
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If you know they are stock, look them up. If not, then you have to pull and measure. If you still have the original rubber bushings in there, I bet you have stock torsion bars. What car, please?
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911S
1971 chassis, 2.7RS spec MFI engine, suspension mods, lightened

Suspension by Rebel Racing, Serviced by TLG Auto, Brakes by PMB Performance
http://www.flickr.com/photos/max_911_fahrer/
Old 10-20-2010, 08:41 PM
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