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-   -   Driving impressions, eary 3.0 turbo compared to the 3.3cars (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/573748-driving-impressions-eary-3-0-turbo-compared-3-3cars.html)

fastfredracing 11-05-2010 04:42 PM

Driving impressions, eary 3.0 turbo compared to the 3.3cars
 
I own an early turbo car, but have not driven it in 5 years. It is a long term project. I have driven a bunch of 3.3 cars as of late, but honestly can't begin to compare the two. For what it is worth, I do remember thinking my early car was pretty damn quick, and it had issues at the time . I would assume the early cars come on boost a little later.

Tilikum Turbo 11-05-2010 10:06 PM

3.0 versus 3.3
 
I believe one of the reasons Porsche increased the displacement from 3.0 to 3.3 in 1978 was to improve the flexibility of the engine at low RPM's, reducing the turbo lag. On the flip side, the response on the earlier 3.0 had to be good, as there was no intercooler buffer between the turbo and the engine.

Personally, the 86' 930 engine that I installed in my 1983SC seems to be just like my old 3.0 normal engine, until 3000RPM's when the boost starts. I've never experienced a turbo-lag with this engine, unlike driving a friends Audi TT with a 225HP 2.0L motor, which was a real dog to drive.

drmatera 11-06-2010 10:53 AM

tough to compare the light weight 3.0 non intercooled cars to the later heavier 3.3 intercooled version. I sold my 79 930 over 14 years ago, but I can tell my 86 is lugging around more weight. And my 79 with stock turbo and gutted muffler ran faster than my 86 did with K27 and B&B headers

krk 11-06-2010 09:16 PM

Well, I supply a partial answer I guess. I have a 76 turbo carrera. When I got it, it had 34K on it. As a 3.0, it had plenty of omph when up on revs. At the low end, the torque was not so good. 6.0 compression will do that I guess. Pair that with a fairly high gearing on 1st gear, and tooling around town was a bit of a finesse job. At 40-ishK, we swallow a valve. In the rebuild, we move to a 3.2 configuration with (iirc) 7.6 compression. Night and day. With all else stock, the car is wonderful to drive. Oh, we did switch to european exhaust. All in all, the slight boost in base cr makes the car easily drivable in the city, and the transition to boost is "extremely nice"...

Now, if I had a shot at driving a 3.3. car, I'd have the complete opinion. As it is, I'm limping on that front.

But I love the car :)

kim.

911st 11-07-2010 08:50 AM

From a tech point of view, the 3.0 turbo has a lot going for it. Stronger rods, fully fined cylinders, bigger exhaust ports, better front to rear balance with the short transmission, lighter clutch pac and no intercooler, lighter rotating weight with 20mm 911S rotors and usually 15" rims. They also had a WUR design that provided acceleration enrichment fuel sooner.

Also, potentially less sensitivity to detonation with the smaller diameter combustion chamber, shorter stroke, and lower compression.

Many of the 76's did not have the power brake and still had the through the front trunk sway bar.

However, it also had a ridiculously poor design of the headers/heat exchangers.

I would have a hard time choosing between the two.

Peter Guldan 11-08-2010 03:05 PM

Howdy FastFred,

Driven a Euro (9/76 build) 930 since 12/83. If the emphasis is on driving impressions, they are the most balanced and athletic of the 930's out of the box (even if the limits are low). But, if one's dwelling on the comparison part agains the 3.3's...especially in light of what these can drive like with modern engine management, impressions aren't nearly as favorable.

You didn't mention US or Euro, US's don't really have a discernible boost hit, they sorta swell up in a surge, and having thermal reactors, several hard pulls in intermediate gears and throttle response softens noticeably from heat. Euro's had a faint resemblance to the 3.3 power delivery, just notches down on scale and suffered from the same heat soak situation. Having essentially brakes off the 73S, they have less unspring weight (and big fade), feel nimble and more composed on rough pavement. 3.3's with 67ish more pounds hanging over the rear axle, that heavy clutch package and those big rotors/larger wheels acting as flywheels feel noticebly less nimble but with 7/1, more displacement and semblance of an intercooler, they have a more immediate sense of urge on throttle tip in that makes them "feel" nimble though one senses alot more propensity for oversteer. These cars like to be set up for a corner, not tossed in casually like the earlier ones.

But, that said, the 75-77 is a heck of a platform for a car with the driving characteristics of a Carrera with the power of a turbo. I sold my 3.0 motor in 85 and installed a brand new theft recovery 3.3 (Allen Johnson Racing - stolen from the EPA shop) and adapted it to fit that short 77 earlier trans. Along the way it got the usual stuff with emphasis on lightness, 944 turbo brakes, gun drilled bars, mag BBS's off of a Group B. Then...in 04 it got a package engine and EFI. At 2,675lbs with half a tank of gas with 474RWHP it is what my 73S shoulda been. A nimble sports car with a huge reserve of power.


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