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Turbofrog
 
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Europe
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My fueling is finally OK.

I had a problem with going very lean after 5000rpms and I found out the car has a lambda fuel head with the lambda port plugged and my car is a 79 non lambda 930. I installed two 044s and dialed the system pressure to 7.3bar, dialed the BLWur enrichment to max but it did not give more fuel so I had to figure out some other way to get more fuel.

Modified fuel head would take time and money so I decided to first try a proven controller from split second AIC1 BUT I installed it on the lambda port with the original lambda frequency valve instead of the wur line and andial valve like others had. I tried to search internet for some help but it seemed no one had wrote about using this method before.

Here are the Thierry25's instructions on how to install a spilt sec AIC1
ELECTRONIC CIS fueling & BOOST control

Anyway, it works just fine and now my fueling is in check on boost and high rpms. Maybe some fine tuning on the boost spool fueling is needed and later I'm going to control boost with the other map on the split second AIC with a mac boost solenoid.

This is how the fueling was
AFR went above 13 at 5300 rpms





and this is how it's now and AFR stays under 12




Today when I went logging I got into a small hail size hailstorm and the ground and road suddenly got white but somehow it did not affect grip too much so I just kept driving. It was a bit bizarre with 315 rear tires still having grip on white road?

Old 11-07-2010, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfbus View Post
I had a problem with going very lean after 5000rpms
Snap, me too.

Quote:
I installed two 044s and dialed the system pressure to 7.3bar, dialed the BLWur enrichment to max but it did not give more fuel so I had to figure out some other way to get more fuel.
I love this forum! You just saved me installing a 2nd 044 fuel pump, which I was going to try next.

Quote:
BUT I installed it on the lambda port with the original lambda frequency valve instead of the wur line and andial valve like others had.
I thought about that, and saw no reason it wouldn't work, given the low flow rate necessary (I think the 965 flow spec is 260 ml/min?).

Handy to know - because ANDIAL told me a week or three ago "we stopped selling the fuel enrichment system 4 years ago, we ran out of single-run parts and didn't re-manufacture them."
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'77 S with '78 930 power and a few other things.
Old 11-07-2010, 12:27 PM
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from the look at your last graph, is your WUR boost enrichment occuring at 3,200 rpm?

and, if so, I find it interesting how your AFR's just continously drop down as RPM's increase above 1,000. mine stay pretty flat [upper 13's] until enrichment...
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LIVN80S - - Red '79 Porsche 930 Steel Slant Nose Conversion [in 1987] w. 46k miles 3.3L; 964 Cams; K27HF @ 1.0 BAR, with Garrettson Intercooler; Rarly Zork; CIS Flowtech Fuel Head & BL-WUR.

Last edited by mooney265; 11-07-2010 at 12:46 PM..
Old 11-07-2010, 12:43 PM
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Turbofrog
 
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At this time I have my BLWur out of the enrichment loop. I plugged the boost line from TB to it. I'm going to try to dial the low rpm fueling with the AIC1 fueling map next spring (It's freezing already here)

My AIC1 extra fueling starts now at 5000rpms (the dip in the graph). The rpms at the last graph start at about 4200rpms and go up to about 6800rpms.

I have option to use also the BLWur enrichment for the lower lean too but the AIC is easier and you can also alter the chape of the AF curve which you can not do with the BLWur. I wan't to keep some leaness to help spool but the lean spike after I push the pedal is something I need to get better and that needs some boost logging to see what vacuum numbers I get when I step on it so I can dial some fuel on those rpms/vacuum cells. At this time I have some extra fuel on vacuum but I just guessed the cells and the amount of fuel needed and it's not good yet.

So far I'm very happy with this DIY fueling. I must thank Thierry25 and 911st for giving me the idea of using the AIC1 and lowfat for selling me his spare lambda valve for a very nice price. All together I think this fix cost about $600. If you happen to already have lambda fuel head and the valve you only need to buy the AIC1 for about $300. The lambda valve is high impedance and the andial is low so choose the AIC accordingly.

Last edited by smurfbus; 11-07-2010 at 08:53 PM..
Old 11-07-2010, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfbus View Post
My AIC1 extra fueling starts now at 5000rpms (the dip in the graph). The rpms at the last graph start at about 4200rpms and go up to about 6800rpms.
Ok, thanks for the clarification - - I was reading the graph wrong
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LIVN80S - - Red '79 Porsche 930 Steel Slant Nose Conversion [in 1987] w. 46k miles 3.3L; 964 Cams; K27HF @ 1.0 BAR, with Garrettson Intercooler; Rarly Zork; CIS Flowtech Fuel Head & BL-WUR.
Old 11-08-2010, 05:44 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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Two other logs. First is an easy launch 1st from 4500rpms to 6500rpms on 2nd. The 10AFR was from lifting when it started to get a bit sideways




Second pic: 3rd from 3000 to 6750

Old 11-08-2010, 06:52 AM
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Good, good stuff!

I am wondering.

Is there more gross fuel up top because of lowering CP (and better fuel pumps)via the BLWUR? Is it from the Lambda function? Or, from a combination of both?

Thus, what is the base control pressure now? Is it lower than stock on boost CP?

I have long believed that there should more gross fuel delivery available by taking control of the Lambda function.

That is, lower CP and using lambda would get more fuel than just lowering CP.

However, my belife took a hit when Thierry25 tried to increase gross fueling using this approach but did not get the suspected yield.

I think this was before he discovered the fuel pumps limit gross fuel delivery. He was going to revisit this after he added his 044 pump-- but I lost track of this with him.

This is an interesting strategy and it is great to see it is proving to have potential.

It would be interesting to do a test to determine how much up and down the Lambda function can effect AFR's? For example, if it is 10% each way and or a total window of 20% or what?

Again, great job!!!

Last edited by 911st; 11-08-2010 at 08:05 AM..
Old 11-08-2010, 07:59 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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I did not change the BLWur settings inbetween the lean and good runs. Logging the control pressure is a bit difficult and I'm not up to it at this time.

I doubt the control pressure is any lower now as the boost line is disconnected. There is a chance that the lambda line affects the control pressure though.

If you look at the 6000 rpms you can see the AFR is almost 2 units lower now with the lambda control and the difference is even higher at 7000rpms. I have 50DC at higher rpms on my lambda valve MAP now but I read that configuring the AIC setup for 2-stroke would give even more output.

Next spring is going to be interesting as I'm going to install the boost valve so I might also try more boost up top too and see how much more fuel I can get with 100DC or 2-stroke setup

Last edited by smurfbus; 11-08-2010 at 11:32 AM.. Reason: 50DC
Old 11-08-2010, 11:22 AM
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Again, great project.

I love the idea of boost management on a CIS turbo. Can't wait.


CP should be stable at least up until the delivery rate pressure seen at the injectors approaches system pressure.

If I may ask:

Is your "before AFR's' with the new fuel pumps installed?

After you adjusted the BL WUR did you test your control pressure at idle and what is it?
Old 11-08-2010, 11:49 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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Before AFR's were also on new 044s. I can't recall the warm CP but I might check it later and post it here but my AFR on cruise is around 14.7 and idle is around 13.7

I just took it out of insurance so no more logging until next spring.

Old 11-08-2010, 12:00 PM
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