Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average.
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered
 
cliyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hurricane Region, NC
Posts: 646
Question for the experts: What's the ideal AFR @ WOT NORTH of 4K RPM in a forced induction air cooled motor? Is 11.8 AFR to lean?

__________________
- '88 911 (3.6 Transplant, Big Reds, Coilovers, & Headers)
- '12 Audi B8 S4 (6MT)
- SOLD! '84 911 3.2 Turbo Targa
- SOLD! '85 928S 5sp with LSD
Old 02-15-2011, 07:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #41 (permalink)
Registered User
 
sjf911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Idaho
Posts: 5,727
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliyde View Post
Question for the experts: What's the ideal AFR @ WOT NORTH of 4K RPM in a forced induction air cooled motor? Is 11.8 AFR to lean?
I'm certainly not an expert but I think that question is really complicated and ideally needs to be determined for each engine on a dyno with good knock detection. Dynamic compression, AFR, timing, fuel type, intake temperature, head/piston design/temperature, etc., all contribute to your knock/power limit. I've used 11.5 as an empiric lower limit because of the issue of power loss as the AFR falls and adjusted timing accordingly.
__________________
Steve
Sapere aude
1983 3.4L 911SC turbo. Sold

Last edited by sjf911; 02-15-2011 at 08:17 AM..
Old 02-15-2011, 08:14 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #42 (permalink)
yep, im slow in the head
 
carslutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: riVersiDe, cA
Posts: 510
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to carslutt
nice project
__________________
1978 911sc Targa - CNC plasma/router cut parts, tig welding, sheet metal work, VAG-COM, LM-1. let me know if u need something
Old 02-15-2011, 08:29 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #43 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliyde View Post
Question for the experts: What's the ideal AFR @ WOT NORTH of 4K RPM in a forced induction air cooled motor? Is 11.8 AFR to lean?
It's a complicated question best answered on the dyno. That being said I used 11.5-11:8 as a target in my tuning. This was on race gas. On pump gas things should be even richer to be safe. High 10's would be best IMHO.
Old 02-15-2011, 05:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #44 (permalink)
Registered
 
cliyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hurricane Region, NC
Posts: 646
Completed my first long trip (200 miles) in the car last weekend! She ran solid and smooth all the way. Off boost feels slightly better than before, a touch more responsive. On boost, however, is a different story - it's just a freaking ANIMAL!!! Like owning a pet Gorilla! Couldn't be happier with the results, Carrera life will never be the same.
__________________
- '88 911 (3.6 Transplant, Big Reds, Coilovers, & Headers)
- '12 Audi B8 S4 (6MT)
- SOLD! '84 911 3.2 Turbo Targa
- SOLD! '85 928S 5sp with LSD
Old 02-26-2011, 04:57 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #45 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliyde View Post
Oil Return line to drain (Jbrinkley style)
Interesting. What are the details on the oil return fittings into the case? Is that M20 x 1.0 pitch? Care to elaborate?

Is there a 90 degree swivel male fitting that would screw into that oil drain port so the bend has a tighter bend radius and lower profile?

My heat exchangers are a little close to this port, so I don't think I can have such a large 90 degree fitting there

Last edited by 911TT33; 03-31-2011 at 01:54 PM..
Old 03-31-2011, 01:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #46 (permalink)
 
Registered
 
cliyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hurricane Region, NC
Posts: 646
Recipe taken from Jbrinkley's turbo conversion. There are, however, updated part numbers (which I have somewhere), but you get the idea. I was able to taper the HE lip slightly which gave me plenty of room for the 90 degree swivel. Not sure about other 90 fittings. You could give batinc a call, they're very knowledgeable. Hope this helps!




Quote:
Originally Posted by 911TT33 View Post
Interesting. What are the details on the oil return fittings into the case? Is that M20 x 1.0 pitch? Care to elaborate?

Is there a 90 degree swivel male fitting that would screw into that oil drain port so the bend has a tighter bend radius and lower profile?

My heat exchangers are a little close to this port, so I don't think I can have such a large 90 degree fitting there
__________________
- '88 911 (3.6 Transplant, Big Reds, Coilovers, & Headers)
- '12 Audi B8 S4 (6MT)
- SOLD! '84 911 3.2 Turbo Targa
- SOLD! '85 928S 5sp with LSD
Old 03-31-2011, 05:34 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #47 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 471
Thanks cliyde. Looks like you used a union fitting in the port, then the 90 degree fitting onto that.

I don't think that's going to work for me because the 993TT HE's have the heater tube a little too close to this port and I won't have enough room for a union + 90 degree fitting.

I'll need to do some more measurements to see what sort of clearance I have

Last edited by 911TT33; 03-31-2011 at 07:02 PM..
Old 03-31-2011, 06:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #48 (permalink)
Registered
 
cliyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hurricane Region, NC
Posts: 646
Update 6/12/11

Logged over 6000 miles and 3 long distance trips with the turbo and have had NO issues to date!
I've finally made it past the "proof of concept" and decided to make things "official" by having my local shop fabricate a solid charge pipe to get rid of the BOV coupler, etc. Here's some pics of the results, enjoy!





__________________
- '88 911 (3.6 Transplant, Big Reds, Coilovers, & Headers)
- '12 Audi B8 S4 (6MT)
- SOLD! '84 911 3.2 Turbo Targa
- SOLD! '85 928S 5sp with LSD

Last edited by cliyde; 06-12-2011 at 04:48 PM..
Old 06-12-2011, 04:45 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #49 (permalink)
Registered User
 
spence88mph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,581
Awesome install Clyde, very clean. It's amazing how easily you can change these cars from docile to modern super car specs!
__________________
'89 911 M491+Turbo
'89 944 Turbo
'88 928S4
'18 C63S Coupe
Old 06-13-2011, 08:38 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #50 (permalink)
Registered
 
cliyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hurricane Region, NC
Posts: 646
Thanks Spence! Best thing about having a NB Carrera on boost is that she's a total SLEEPER! Not only is it lightweight but super quick when you step on the loud pedal!!! I've surprised several modern cars that would normally eat up a NA 911.
__________________
- '88 911 (3.6 Transplant, Big Reds, Coilovers, & Headers)
- '12 Audi B8 S4 (6MT)
- SOLD! '84 911 3.2 Turbo Targa
- SOLD! '85 928S 5sp with LSD
Old 06-14-2011, 05:18 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #51 (permalink)
Registered User
 
polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Collegeville, PA
Posts: 1,367
Hi Cliyde, Just read through your thread and really enjoyed. Congratulations on the conversion and enjoy the continuous improvements!

I did a conversion a few years ago on my '87 Carrera. Two things that you did that I wish I would have done:

1. Replace the Air Flow Meter with MAF or MAP sensor
2. Replace the stock rubber elbow connecting to the throttle body

Those caused such head aches! I've got an Electromotive Tec3R engine management system that I'm planning to install at some point - hopefully over the winter. How's the suspension holding up with the added HP?
__________________
Andy - 1987 911 Carrera Coupe
Old 06-14-2011, 06:36 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #52 (permalink)
 
Registered
 
cliyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hurricane Region, NC
Posts: 646
Hey, thanks for the feedback! It was folks like you that inspired me to perform my conversion as I recall seeing your turbocharging posts which I used as a reference!

What I can say about the MAF, aside from performance, is it really opened up multiple fitment options and ability to implement a good "suck through" design. Using the silicone intake I essentially kept all of the stock vacuum lines which made the car behave just as it were before, at idle and OFF boost.

I still have the desire to add an intercooler at some point, but it will be an altogether different challenge to fit one under the ducktail. I'm content right now with the power and performance running 7psi, so it's not high on the list.

One thing I'm glad of is the complete suspension refresh I did prior to converting. I still get some SQUAT in a straight line punch! I went with Bilsteins, Polybronze bearings all around, and bigger front and rear torsion bars. Car handles great, even with the power down, but I probably could go bigger TB's in the rear.

Keep us posted on the Electromotive Tec3R engine management project, I'll be curious what you think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by polizei View Post
Hi Cliyde, Just read through your thread and really enjoyed. Congratulations on the conversion and enjoy the continuous improvements!

I did a conversion a few years ago on my '87 Carrera. Two things that you did that I wish I would have done:

1. Replace the Air Flow Meter with MAF or MAP sensor
2. Replace the stock rubber elbow connecting to the throttle body

Those caused such head aches! I've got an Electromotive Tec3R engine management system that I'm planning to install at some point - hopefully over the winter. How's the suspension holding up with the added HP?
__________________
- '88 911 (3.6 Transplant, Big Reds, Coilovers, & Headers)
- '12 Audi B8 S4 (6MT)
- SOLD! '84 911 3.2 Turbo Targa
- SOLD! '85 928S 5sp with LSD
Old 06-14-2011, 08:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #53 (permalink)
Registered User
 
polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Collegeville, PA
Posts: 1,367
What size TBs are you running currently? I've got my car in the shop currently, and I'm swapping the stock TBs for 22mm front and 29mm rears. The turbo is not in currently, so I should get a good idea for how much stiffer it needs to be once all the power is back.
__________________
Andy - 1987 911 Carrera Coupe
Old 06-14-2011, 09:28 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #54 (permalink)
Registered
 
cliyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hurricane Region, NC
Posts: 646
I went with 21mm fronts and 27 rears for two reasons. 1) It's a mostly street drivenTarga (@ 2700lbs) with some occassional track use. 2) The wife factor!

You're probably on the money with choice of TB's!
__________________
- '88 911 (3.6 Transplant, Big Reds, Coilovers, & Headers)
- '12 Audi B8 S4 (6MT)
- SOLD! '84 911 3.2 Turbo Targa
- SOLD! '85 928S 5sp with LSD

Last edited by cliyde; 06-14-2011 at 10:02 AM..
Old 06-14-2011, 09:59 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #55 (permalink)
Registered User
 
polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Collegeville, PA
Posts: 1,367
Yes, I can sympathize with both of those reasons. Some of the guys who have gone before us recommended that go even stiffer - 30mm+ in the rear. I compromised on 22/29, with the understanding that it will be on the stiff side. Fortunately for me, my wife is a bit of a car nut too

Hearing that you have a bit of a squat makes at 21/27 makes me think I made the right choice for my power goals. Worse case scenario I can always swap out the TBs!
__________________
Andy - 1987 911 Carrera Coupe
Old 06-14-2011, 01:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #56 (permalink)
Registered User
 
spence88mph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,581
My car has very stiff suspension in the back, normal driving you really dont notice its only when you go down a really bumpy road quickly that you can tell. I have no squat now, well very minor, it tames the car a bit, doesn't feel as fast or push you back into the seat as much which takes the thrill out a bit! I think a bit of squat is cool
__________________
'89 911 M491+Turbo
'89 944 Turbo
'88 928S4
'18 C63S Coupe
Old 06-14-2011, 11:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #57 (permalink)
Registered
 
cliyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hurricane Region, NC
Posts: 646
Agreed on "bit of Squat is cool!" Mine is not at all bad, it kinda feels like your taking off in a jet!
__________________
- '88 911 (3.6 Transplant, Big Reds, Coilovers, & Headers)
- '12 Audi B8 S4 (6MT)
- SOLD! '84 911 3.2 Turbo Targa
- SOLD! '85 928S 5sp with LSD
Old 06-15-2011, 04:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #58 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 221
wonderfull!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Yessssssss...
Old 06-16-2011, 09:34 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #59 (permalink)
Registered
 
kinein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: inland empire
Posts: 3,062
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to kinein
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliyde View Post
On my budget, about $2450 for the necessary new/used parts to turbocharge.
is this really so, if so i might change my mind on the other route i was thinkin about

Old 06-16-2011, 09:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #60 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:10 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2020 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.