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surfpangea
 
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turbo blow out

I have a problem I installed a rebuilt high performance 3ldz that has had the internals enlarged with newer advanced wheels 61mm after install I had a leak in the center so I removed the turbo and installed a k-27 999 i fired up the car and after a few seconds white billowing smoke i removed the muffler and the center section had blew out lots of oil in the exhaust side and the compressor side. two turbos in a row so. the first turbo I used a custom bracket the second turbo I used the factory bracket I have a v band setup and the stock muffler band after the turbo the only thing I can figure is the clamping forces are flexing the turbo? Would a oil pressure malfunction Has anyone had this problem I have used the k-27 before with no problems. Any suggestions?
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77 930 stock 3.0 gsf header ,borla exhaust,gt30 BB turbo, V-band, full bay IC,WMI, 46 mm Adjustable waste-gate,Zeitronix wideband, Intergrated Car pc, Winlog interface Beta
Old 02-15-2011, 09:22 AM
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Not exactly sure about this but I thought I read something about a oil restrictor in the oil feed line to reduce the pressure in the turbo.Or is it possible your scavage pump system not working properly and the oil is getting backed up in the turbo causing it to leak through the housings.

Chris
Old 02-15-2011, 10:36 AM
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surfpangea
 
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Thanks Chris I was wondering about the restrictor I will Check the scavenge pump. Does the line have a restrictor anyone know as I changed the line some time ago I did not see one I know one is needed with the Garrett turbos its required.
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MB CL 600 6liter V12 daily driver
86 Corvette Stage 1 Nos (sold)
78 911sc Targa (sold)
77 930 stock 3.0 gsf header ,borla exhaust,gt30 BB turbo, V-band, full bay IC,WMI, 46 mm Adjustable waste-gate,Zeitronix wideband, Intergrated Car pc, Winlog interface Beta

Last edited by Sam Matthews; 02-15-2011 at 01:02 PM..
Old 02-15-2011, 12:46 PM
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surfpangea
 
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What is the easiest way to check and see if the scavenge pump is working?
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MB CL 600 6liter V12 daily driver
86 Corvette Stage 1 Nos (sold)
78 911sc Targa (sold)
77 930 stock 3.0 gsf header ,borla exhaust,gt30 BB turbo, V-band, full bay IC,WMI, 46 mm Adjustable waste-gate,Zeitronix wideband, Intergrated Car pc, Winlog interface Beta
Old 02-15-2011, 01:01 PM
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Hold the end of the scavenge line in a container of oil and see if it's sucked out. You'll need to catch the incoming oil from the turbo as well.
Old 02-15-2011, 01:10 PM
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BTW. Do you have the small ball in the check valve?
Old 02-15-2011, 01:11 PM
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surfpangea
 
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turbo blow out

Yes I have the ball and I will check the pump thanks for the info
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MB CL 600 6liter V12 daily driver
86 Corvette Stage 1 Nos (sold)
78 911sc Targa (sold)
77 930 stock 3.0 gsf header ,borla exhaust,gt30 BB turbo, V-band, full bay IC,WMI, 46 mm Adjustable waste-gate,Zeitronix wideband, Intergrated Car pc, Winlog interface Beta
Old 02-15-2011, 01:41 PM
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surfpangea
 
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blow out

The pump works I double checked the ball just in case its there. I took the turbo apart marking all the important areas (moving parts). I cleaned and resealed it I added new rings to the shaft and o-rings to the casings while Re-aliening the areas I marked during Disassembly. I still don't understand what happened The car did make a odd pop when I first turned it over. I checked the base timing its good when I start it tomorrow I will Put a timing light on it to be sure
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MB CL 600 6liter V12 daily driver
86 Corvette Stage 1 Nos (sold)
78 911sc Targa (sold)
77 930 stock 3.0 gsf header ,borla exhaust,gt30 BB turbo, V-band, full bay IC,WMI, 46 mm Adjustable waste-gate,Zeitronix wideband, Intergrated Car pc, Winlog interface Beta
Old 02-15-2011, 07:38 PM
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I did not see listed which turbo sump tank you are using. The stock vented tank will allow excess oil to dump into the air filter housing where in an un-vented tank oil may back up and blow through the turbo seals.
The balance of flow should be measured; the volume of oil pumping into the turbo vs the volume being pumped out of the sump tank.
Just having a ball bearing in the oil feed line is not a thorough indicator. These bearings distort and wear over time becoming oblong and allowing more flow.
A not uncommon issue resulting in blown turbo seals is occlusion of the oil passages. I have a couple pictures of glops of red silicone sealant that squeezed out from between the oil gaskets and made it's way into the oil passage. No sealants should be used on these gaskets.
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:48 AM
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Mr. Sam,

I'm a little late to the party here, my excuse is I'm old and slow.

Hoyabear did a great thread here on this subject: "Oil Scavenging Problems" you might take a look.

If you need a new ball bearing for the check valve I have a whole bag of them around here somewhere.

I'm getting close to putting the headers and new K27S on. I've purchased a new check valve assy and an aftermarket scavenging tank for the job because I'm relocating the turbo. You might consider changing to the different style tank set up. As Brian mentioned a lot of these scavenging issues are caused by old sludge in the system.
This setup replaces all the old scavenge system components with new and is not that
expensive. Very easy to install.










My best to you !!!!
Cole
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Last edited by cole930; 04-09-2011 at 01:22 PM..
Old 02-18-2011, 06:00 AM
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surfpangea
 
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Thanks Brian for the info will test. Mr Cole thank you for the info I have made the mods.
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MB CL 600 6liter V12 daily driver
86 Corvette Stage 1 Nos (sold)
78 911sc Targa (sold)
77 930 stock 3.0 gsf header ,borla exhaust,gt30 BB turbo, V-band, full bay IC,WMI, 46 mm Adjustable waste-gate,Zeitronix wideband, Intergrated Car pc, Winlog interface Beta
Old 02-21-2011, 08:59 AM
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Any news Sam? I have gone through 2 K27's now , oddly for me though my 3ldz, that I put in temporarily so I can drive, doesn't blow any smoke.

happened today with my rebuilt k27 (15km's on it!). The oil was even coming out of the housing on the outside of the turbo (hot side).

here 's a picture of mine...


sorry, dont mean to hijack the thread.
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Last edited by mark '87 930; 04-09-2011 at 11:42 AM..
Old 04-09-2011, 11:38 AM
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picture added...

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Old 04-09-2011, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark '87 930 View Post
Any news Sam? I have gone through 2 K27's now , oddly for me though my 3ldz, that I put in temporarily so I can drive, doesn't blow any smoke.

happened today with my rebuilt k27 (15km's on it!). The oil was even coming out of the housing on the outside of the turbo (hot side).

here 's a picture of mine...


sorry, dont mean to hijack the thread.
Who built/rebuilt your K27s?
Old 04-09-2011, 12:06 PM
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1 was rebuilt somewhat locally here in Canada. I don't want to mention any names, but I do think the exhaust side is not right... how can it blow oil even on the outside. Unless my sump isn't working, but it is for sure. I just tested it.

I had the car running with a shallow pan under the turbo to catch the oil and the sump line in the pan as well to capture the oil. There was obviously no oil restriction int he turbo and it still smoked tons.

i posted two vids on youtube:

YouTube - 930 turbo issue (vid 2)

YouTube - 930 turbo issue (vid 1)

Sorry, I reversed the videos. the one with less smoke is the second one.
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Old 04-09-2011, 02:12 PM
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i put my 3ldz back in and went for drive. No smoke.

Could be a bad turbo rebuild, a slow scavenge pump but the 3ldz handles more flow?
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1987 930
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Old 04-10-2011, 01:21 PM
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Sounds like a bad turbo rebuild reading that your 3ldz is working correct you can check out the turbo in question go to the turbo check shaft tolerances ( They are in the workshop Manuel) if good first mark everything that moves for reassembly such as side plates, nut to shaft open the turbo and check to see if the metal rings on the shaft are there you should have two of them and if so make sure they don't pop out of the groove when you reinstall one of the two on mine was out of the groove and around the shaft check to make sure oil slinger in installed properly, check the rubber o rings are good and not pinched .Use lots of oil when you reassemble I hope this helps I forest gumped my way through it so I am sure you can get it corrected with out to much problem.
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MB CL 600 6liter V12 daily driver
86 Corvette Stage 1 Nos (sold)
78 911sc Targa (sold)
77 930 stock 3.0 gsf header ,borla exhaust,gt30 BB turbo, V-band, full bay IC,WMI, 46 mm Adjustable waste-gate,Zeitronix wideband, Intergrated Car pc, Winlog interface Beta

Last edited by Sam Matthews; 04-10-2011 at 02:59 PM..
Old 04-10-2011, 02:56 PM
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i did that last winter (not the one that just passed) along side rebuilding the top end and transmission.. 3 projects all at once. It is rather simple. Ironically, last year the turbo smoked TONS early in the spring after my rebuild, but then not again until the end of the summer. I thought I had done a bad job so I sent it out for rebuild last winter and it only lasted 10 miles. I can't understand why it worked fine all summer.. and then BLAM..

It's unreal the amount of smoke that comes out. i will check the scavenge system and look into this thrust bearing thing (a 360 degree one).

I don't want to buy a new turbo and likely won't if the 3ldz doesn't give up. I do expect my money back for the turbo rebuild though.
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Old 04-10-2011, 03:04 PM
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went for another drive, still no smoke. i hate that 3ldz, but right now.. it's staying. I may look at the 360 degree thrust bearing, but in time.

I forgot to mention that the K27 I just had rebuilt had about 5 table spoons of oil on the cold side when I flipped it over. I was amazed.. never saw so much oil on the cold side... I assumed as much had leaked into the hot side causing the log fog in the city.

Thanks everyone, I have a good idea of where I stand. sorry to hijack your thread Sam.
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Old 04-10-2011, 04:23 PM
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what is your iddle speed?????????
Old 04-10-2011, 05:29 PM
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