Is MSD definately an upgrade over factroy cdi?
 

I believe that the general consensus is that on a stock N/A cis, car , there is no real performance gain to be had from MSD. Once you go to carbs, and start turning up the wick ,I believe MSD is very beneficial.
I know that the longer duration of the spark will help starting, and low rpm performance quite a bit, but at higher rpms right about where our boost comes on, and the MSD's main advantage of the longer spark duration goes away, is there any real performance benefit ? How much juice does a factory unit put out?
I am at a crossroads with my 76. I have My MSD unit all laid out on the workbench, and was planning on wiring it all up this weekend, but if there is no real performance gain to be had , I will just steal the 8 pin box out of my other car, and send mine out to have it repaired .
Having an early car, I am trying not to molest it too much,but of course the install of an MSD can be made completely reversible,
What do you guys think?

Well, since you have it, what is the hurt in trying it?? I never liked the stock CDI... actually, I hated it. It left me stranded several times. And always replaced it with a new unit. It is not just the longer duration, that is the benefit, its also the power. When you are on full boost, dynamic C/R gets pretty high. Your cylinder pressures are also up there. The extra Joules of power help with lighting off the plug under those higher pressures....

To be honest, I would not put anything MSD in a vehicle I owned.... Not even my lawnmower. There is a reason why MSD stands for (My Spark Died).

If you are serious about getting into a CDI ignition system, take a look here....But be warned... these are $$$$$$$

M&W Ignitions was formed in 1996 with the goal of being the number one performance ignition system supplier in Australia - Inductive Ignition Systems

All the race cars ive seen and worked on,all have MSD, they are quite reliable.
I dont know about the problem turbobrat is talking about. MSD is far more reliable than stock units.

2 cents.

I've been running with MSD 6AL for many years now with absolutely no issues. Works fine for me anyway. I'm sure there are better aftermarket systems out there, but for the price and reliability in my mind they're hard to beat. Do your research...each to his own.

newer design parts, you get to open up the plug gap a little and if you have a problem with one most chain auto parts stores have MSD parts in stock.
i think it's an upgrade.

You can dramatically improve the long term reliability of the factory CDI simply by adding an external input voltage limiter. A low value (0.5 ohms), high wattage (5-10 watts) resistor and a 15 volt POWER zener diode will do the trick.

But then you won't have the bouncing tach as an indication that the alternator/regulator is in the process of failure.

MSD 6AL changed my life for the better. Low end runs cleaner and stronger. Plugs last longer, better rev limiter, etc.

Also plan to use it to actvate 7th injector.

Bought my first aftermarket ignition in 1972, it was a Mallory, supposed to be the hot set up back then. It went tits up after the second week I had it. Replaced it with MSD, which was ACC back then, and have been using them ever since and have never had a failure.

Cole

Installed a Digital 6AL a week or so ago with all other required bits (magnecor wires, new cap, rotor and .045 gapped plugs) its definitely better, and it was going well before the upgrade......has more pull particularly over 4K.

Mines a 1980 SC, not a turbo.

It seems the analog based MSD 6A and 6AL boxes are pretty solid, I've never had one fail, and I used plenty of them. I've had both the Mallory and Crane boxes fail. I have friends with the newer digital MSD boxes fail.

My 2 cents.

Thats funny..
First ignition CDI amplifier I bought was also a "Mallory Super CD" back in 1975.

Nice finned cast aluminum box with two transistors on top and black urethane or something poured into the bottom to bury and seal the electronics.

Mine never missed a beat and worked great on 4 different points and condensor triggered cars - a mercury montego that was my first car and 3 different BMW's over 25years.
I finally got sick of the high pitched whine that always came through the cassette deck from it and got an MSD Digital 6 CDI and pertronix magnetic pickup for the points distributor in the last BMW.
Then the Mallory went into unairconditioned storage in florida for some more years and the black urethane stuff Mallory put in the bottom to seal the electronics turned into a sticky obnoxious tar like goo and oozed out all over some other things so I threw it in the trash.. the thing probably still worked.

Only changed the CDI Box becuz I was changing some electical parts in the engine compartment and other stuff while at the shop. Car was not running well. I thought it would be a good upgrade after reading all these blogs.

Once all said and done, I like the msd6al. Rev limiter is "good safety device", better startup, better mileage. Whats noticeable is top end power. Its has been reliable for the last 2 yrs.

I have an MSD 6AL because I decided to use an MSD Boost Controller. Else, I would have stayed stock. Early_S_Man was never convinced on the aftermarket stuff, and I tended to respect Warren's opinion on this ignition stuff.

I wouldn't tell anyone to rip the Bosch unit out and put in a MSD but if the Bosch goes tit's up the MSD would be my replacement choice. If you do replace your ignition with MSD make sure you don't get a hold of the coil wire cause it will knock your dick stiff.

"Don't taze me bro !!!!!!"

Cole

You can make a huge increase in torque and low speed acceleration pep during city driving below 3000rpm by advancing the static ignition timing around 10 - 15 degrees, and then installing MSD with boost retard with the boost retard set to pull back ignition timing the same 10-15 degrees under boost.
This way timing under boost is the same as stock but advanced alot at idle and steady cruise or anytime boost is not happening and that made a HUGE inprovement in drivability getting away from stop signs and lights in my car.
Feels like somewhere around 20-30 more horsepower and foot pounds of torque compared to stock below 3000rpms compared to the stock EPA emission control biased igntition timing.

The stock oil filled Brazilian bosch ignition coils (they havn't been made in Germany for a long time) will eventually leak and burnout from heat expansion and vibration cycles when mounted upside down on the fan housing.
The MSD epoxy filled high vibration blaster coil is way better and more reliable than any oil filled coil and it's primary wire winding impedance~resistance is not compatible with the origonal Bosch or Permatune CDI. It is made to work with MSD CDI.

..and if MSD ever goes bad every common auto part store I've walked into in the last 10 - 20 years had the MSD 6AL along with different coils and assorted popular american muscle car ignition parts on display on the wall somewhere behind the counter. Try that with any other ignition.

I just called my mechanic and it seems my CDI unit is intermittent. Apparently Bosch ones are 2k$, yikes.

Now for the really dumb questions:

Are cdi units basically interchangable? what are the options for near OEM replacement? I recall the permatune unit isnt great? I thought these were basically an inductor and a capacitor is there any active circitry in them (transistors etc)?

Thanks,
Aaron

I did a little better search of the forum and am getting some good info now.

Cole:

Old geezers, and even those approaching old geezerdum, find that an MSD wired directly next to the bed does wonders for one's sex life. Reach out to stroke the MSD first, then move on to stroking the one you love.
Oh...and for those of you living where buzz worms (aka rattlesnakes) tend to congregate...as I do....there's actually some medical documentation that says a good shock will somehow counteract the affect that snake venom has on you if bitten. You're supposed to fire up the lawnmower (or your 930 w/MSD) and intentionally grab onto the coil wire. Will cure you of the rattlesnake blues, whilst at the same time giving you this insatiable urge to go find the little woman.

Personally, I love my MSD and how it's performed.

Gimp

Gimper,

Obviously small minds frequent the same gutters. I have the new MSD Programmable installed in the Sled. My old unit is installed on the headboard and even have the boost retard hooked up in case my defib. goes off.

By the way there is a engine sitting in the Sled.

Cole

I have no idea if there is a performance benefit in going to MSD, but I'm not sure how anyone can say the OEM Bosch CDI is not reliable, most of them go 20yrs or so before they fail. Been driving 911's since 1985 and I've only had one CD fail, and it was on my 86 930. That CD was 21yrs old when it finally died. Hardly a reliability issue.