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E-man930's Avatar
 
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I would not peen or stake the air injection plugs (this is not steel on steel - all you are doing is damaging your heads) and no the heat is not too high for PROPER locking agent. (sorry Ken911) Use the right threadlocker and they will never come out.

Extreme Temp Thread Locker, Turbo Rated - 034 MOTORSPORT

(Hopefully our host will start carrying some of this stuff.)

Last edited by E-man930; 06-07-2011 at 08:02 PM..
Old 06-07-2011, 07:59 PM
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Well, just returning in once again... oy.

Oil lines mounted. Air injection plugs installed w/ Loctite Red and no peening 8-).

Got 2 more studs out - 7 down, 5 to go. One of the 5 was one that broke flush w/ the flange... that one broke again just under the nut. Left enough stud to get another nut on, but my MiG friend had already left for the eve, will MiG that one up and cross my fekkin fingers.

Ugh.

The other 4 did NOT feel good - it's weird to me how some come out like buttah, and some are a fakking sumbiatch. The remaining 5 feel like they're about to bust. Sux!

PB blast, sledge tap, repeat, for remainder of evening - stepped away from it before I eff it up (guaranteed).

Again, fuuuk this suxor...
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
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| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 06-07-2011, 08:30 PM
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Paul,
Where has this car been to cause all the studs to rust up so bad? Northern states driven in salt or coastal area driven on the beach? I've never seen anything that bad that wasn't laid up behind a barn for years. Good for you that you have the patients to see it through as these things must be done with a cool head or very bad things happen.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 06-08-2011, 05:07 AM
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I'm in the NE corner not near the beach. Car originated from Chicago area. I know, surprising b/c the car's only got 50k, is an '87 (not too old), and rarely sees rain and never salt, ever.

I don't get it.

I'm pretty dismayed @ the prospect of having to jig / drill / time-cert FIVE fekkin studs, that much I'll say. Maybe I'll luck out and the drill-type extractor will work w/o eff'n the threads.

HOPING another eve of soaking in PB Blast (I've used practically a whole f'n can, after using a can already on all the rest of the peripheral hardware to get to this point), coupled w/ taps of the sledge, will help convince them when I go back in tonight and avoid the misery of the alternative.

Did NOT like the way the other 4 felt tho, nope. Even went 'in' a bit first, then 'out', worked great for some of them but these feel like they're about to twist.

SUCKS

I want to be done, certainly. Don't know how you guys who do major surgery do it - I'm running out of time / patience / energy / wife-equity. Too many repeated nights in garage from 8:01 (kids to bed) to 12 or 9-2 in many instances. Fri will make 3wks.

Ugh.

anywho, thanks for the moral support 8-)

btw - the new motor mounts DO DEFLECT when the motor is jacked up like the ones I was questioning earlier did... maybe a hair less (1/8" vs. 1/4"), FWIW...
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 06-08-2011, 05:30 AM
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Paul,

While I understand the desire to have shiny new studs, if they ain't broke why fix 'em? Assuming they are not broken and have decent threads you can bolt up your new headers using the anti-sieze of your choosing and just drive the beotch. You're not going to see the ugly studs when you're boosting towards the horizon anyhow. When I did my exhaust upgrade I only put new studs in where the old ones came out of the head easily. The ones that wanted to stay put, I left alone. Why tempt fate?

If you plan to keep this car, I can promise you that someday you'll have the engine out, and probably even have the top end apart. It will be far far easier to deal with the studs with the engine on a stand, and easier still to just take the heads over to a machine shop and let them deal with it. Why not spare yourself the agony of doing this job lying on your back, pissing off the spousal unit in the process and losing the opportunity to drive it?
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Old 06-08-2011, 08:00 AM
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Are you using any heat to remove them?
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Old 06-08-2011, 08:31 AM
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Couple reasons Sir Jakealot...

first being - I HAVE TO now 8-)

2nd - my studs were all hour-glassed pretty good from the flange - no threads left there, figured they'd snap upon reinstallation

ah well - I'm all-in now 8-/

will know fersure tonight - ugh

Hey Patrick! Yes, the welding heated them up pretty good, then let them cool. Should I try something different tonight? Heat closer to head?
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 06-08-2011, 08:57 AM
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Just a FYI - red locktite will NOT suffice at all. You need to specifically use high temp threadlocker good to over 800 degrees... It's pricey but you should order what I suggested. Hit the plugs you installed in the heads with a MAP gas torch for 30 seconds and watch how easily they will turn out.
Old 06-08-2011, 10:11 AM
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Thanks E-man.

I'm friendly w/ the owner of 034, but jeezusHC... $40/bottle? I'll give Javad a call and see what he can do for me on that. That sucks.

JFairman uses LTRed tho, he ususally knows his stuff (usually=understatement).

Will JB Weld hold?
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 06-08-2011, 11:06 AM
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Negative on the JB weld - it will turn soft and not hold, your ONLY option is that little $40 bottle from 034. I would also use it on the new studs, which if I were you I would install a set of ARP super studs and never have to worry about it again. Be careful though, that stuff dries QUICK! you need to get it tight as fast as you can and then toque to final value. BTW, if you are interested PM me I have a set of 12 I can part with. (check the price on them first )
Old 06-08-2011, 11:37 AM
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Paul, I feel your pain with regard to your exhaust stud problem! My 930 is also an 87 (just under 70K) - I tore the engine down a couple of years ago due to a troubling knock and removing the headers was one of the most difficult/frustrating steps! All of the nuts were so rusted that there really wasn't a flat side left on them! All had to zapped off with a torch and all the studs had to be drilled out and holes timecerted (welding a nut to them didn't work as the studs just broke off at the head) - this was done with the engine out and apart and was still a nightmare! BTW - torching the nuts was the easy part - got them cherry red and shot them with a blast of oxygen and they essentialy vaporized.

Last edited by Ronnie's.930; 06-08-2011 at 06:52 PM..
Old 06-08-2011, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-man930 View Post
Negative on the JB weld - it will turn soft and not hold, your ONLY option is that little $40 bottle from 034.
You can always try the mechanical method and you would have an excuse to buy some safety wire pliers.



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Old 06-08-2011, 11:44 AM
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nice work willtel! I wish I still had mine - I loaned them out and they never came back.
Old 06-08-2011, 11:45 AM
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Great idea Patrick thanks - asking my bud about that, may be doable.

So, it's official: I need the jig

of course

Got one more out tonight, then snapped the next 2 flush - they looked like they were turning @ the port but nope. Snapped one welded nut off. This after spending 15min prior doing the sledge-tap / PB Blast / repeat routine.

So... as of tonight: 2 snapped flush, 2 remain w/ nuts on them, further up the stud, awaiting a re-weld tomorrow - will see where it goes from there.

Worst case scenario - I drill 4

FUKK!

Posted on 911 board asking for loaner jig, and my bud's looking into making one - one way or other, I'll get the biatch drilled

Just more pissed about the added time lag created. Ah well.

Not surprised tho, very typical 'my luck'... whattayagonnado...
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 06-08-2011, 07:01 PM
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Make sure u don't snap both on the same flange flush or the jig won't work!!! So take it easy taking them out until you have a jig - and let me know if you want my spare set of ARP studs / washers / nuts identical to the picture I posted in this thread of my car. You may be able to talk me into borrowing my jig!

Last edited by E-man930; 06-08-2011 at 07:54 PM..
Old 06-08-2011, 07:51 PM
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Thanks E-man - YGM 8-)

The 2 thus far flush are on 4&6 thankfully, but that leaves 2 left with high likelihood of snapping. Guess I'll back the nuts off those for now to be able to fit the jig. Huge tx for that tip, I'd assuredly have boned myself (typical).

say tho...

Would it be possible to use the header bolted up as the jig? Just crossed my (feeble) mind this morning. Not ideal, but might work no?

Could always use the OE manifold if there was fear to mung'ing up the header flange.
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 06-09-2011, 06:43 AM
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No prob - thought of it after I read your post so I replied with a quickness. Nope - can't use headers with the jig, one of the studs is used to tighten it to the head, it has it's own stud to thread into an available hole but if you snap off two flush your f-'ed. You'll see when you use my jig. I just can't remember what bit you are supposed to use, 1/4 or 17/64. anyone care to share which drill bit is needed to drill out the stud?
Old 06-09-2011, 10:28 AM
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nonono, not "use headers with the jig", use them AS the jig

meaning, bolt up header / manifold and use the flange as the jig

was just an odd thought I had
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 06-09-2011, 10:30 AM
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disregard my idiocy on using the manifold flange as a jig - I just geniusly figured out that the angle'd be off for the drill just like trying to get the wrench on the nut.

Duh.

My bud might have a spare mani he could cut the flange off of to use, but renting one of yourseses would be better 8-).

E-Man / Ken, YGM...

oh, E-Man - thanks for the hardware offer, I already bought all new stuff from our host. I'd have taken you up on that had I known before, thanks anyway...
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 06-09-2011, 11:40 AM
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No prob - check your mail!

And not to sound pushy, but trust me you don't want stock studs on the car, they just can't take the heat and you are going to hate them the first time you have to pull the headers. It's the one other place on the 930 that ARP hardware should be mandatory, besides the case studs and con rod bolts.
Old 06-09-2011, 11:47 AM
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