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yes me too! I have mine installed but haven't locked the rotor weights yet, just have it set to stock..
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Old 09-21-2011, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilonly View Post
Any updates on this? I am thinking of tackling this project during the winter.
I've played with this all summer and at the current 70*, 80% humidity days in Iowa, it's feeling pretty good at 28* static, 18* on boost, 14* idle. In a WUR thread I started, Brian (RarlyL8) suggested more timing, but it just doesn't feel right over 28*. Perhaps it's the 964 cams, or I have more work to do on the CIS side. The weather in Iowa changes daily and it seems I'm constantly fiddling with fuel and timing. I'm still learning, which is a blast, but I'm sure someone like Brian could throw it on a dyno and wring plenty more power out.

My RPM retard curve starts at 1300 RPM and ends at 2300. Some have said to back all the retard out by 2000, but I seem to hover around 2000 a lot around town, and it felt like the MSD was bouncing the timing around (surging).

My boost retard curve starts pulling out advance at .1 bar and is -10* (net 18* advance) by .4 bar. That may be too much too fast, but we only have 91 octane where I live, so I'm afraid to push the limit on boost.

My goals in this project were better driveability around town and strong punch up top, but not absolute maximum power. I don't track this car and want it to last. It's 1000% better in daily driving and the butt dyno guesses about 20% better at WOT. I don't have a dyno anywhere nearby, but I think I'm back to the 350 RWHP that was recorded a few months before I bought it. It didn't seem to like the move from Florida once spring came. The gains (recovery?) have come from a lot of fuel tweaking too, not just timing.

My next project is to relocate my WUR so it's easier to tweak the fuel. Man I love this car
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Steve
87 930 - Black - 3.4L/964 cams/K29/Powerhaus IC/6AL-2/B&B dual exhaust/MTX-L/235-315 Toyo R888/18" Kinesis wheels/Big Red brakes/LSD
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Last edited by PrimeMvr; 09-21-2011 at 08:06 PM..
Old 09-21-2011, 08:03 PM
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Steve what did it do for your gas mileage?
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98 Tahoe ,2007 Saturn Vue
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:25 PM
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Nice project...thanks for sharing. I have been wanting to do the 6AL-2 for a while, I think I just got the motivation! Love this forum.
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Old 09-22-2011, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeMvr View Post
I've played with this all summer and at the current 70*, 80% humidity days in Iowa, it's feeling pretty good at 28* static, 18* on boost, 14* idle. In a WUR thread I started, Brian (RarlyL8) suggested more timing, but it just doesn't feel right over 28*. Perhaps it's the 964 cams, or I have more work to do on the CIS side. The weather in Iowa changes daily and it seems I'm constantly fiddling with fuel and timing. I'm still learning, which is a blast, but I'm sure someone like Brian could throw it on a dyno and wring plenty more power out.
Interesting thread !

I saw you run 18░ max on boost. Have you try more ?
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by 9dreizig View Post
Steve what did it do for your gas mileage?
I wish I could tell you, but I haven't been on a cruise of any length since July and keep forgetting to hit the trip odometer on refuels. I was getting 10, even on the highway. Now I would guess it's around 15 day to day. I had major over-rich issues until just last week when I started messing with my WUR. My control pressure thread

The 930 is not my daily driver, so I'm a bad example of fuel economy. I get it out 3 or 4 times a week for a cruise around town and some blasts on my favorite country roads. It's on boost a lot during those runs.
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87 930 - Black - 3.4L/964 cams/K29/Powerhaus IC/6AL-2/B&B dual exhaust/MTX-L/235-315 Toyo R888/18" Kinesis wheels/Big Red brakes/LSD
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thierry25 View Post
Interesting thread !

I saw you run 18░ max on boost. Have you try more ?
No, I don't have the guts and detonation scares me Again, not a track car and good drivability with a solid kick in the pants is enough to keep a smile on my face.
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87 930 - Black - 3.4L/964 cams/K29/Powerhaus IC/6AL-2/B&B dual exhaust/MTX-L/235-315 Toyo R888/18" Kinesis wheels/Big Red brakes/LSD
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeMvr View Post
No, I don't have the guts and detonation scares me Again, not a track car and good drivability with a solid kick in the pants is enough to keep a smile on my face.
No problem, with 18░ only under 0.9b , you are very very far away from pinging !

( I run 26░ under 1.3b with 12.5 AFR .........and I am not hearing or measuring anything )
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:42 AM
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Oh, now you're just tempting me!! Thanks for the info Thierry
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87 930 - Black - 3.4L/964 cams/K29/Powerhaus IC/6AL-2/B&B dual exhaust/MTX-L/235-315 Toyo R888/18" Kinesis wheels/Big Red brakes/LSD
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeMvr View Post
Oh, now you're just tempting me!! Thanks for the info Thierry
If your AFR is correct ( I mean something like 12 12.5 ) under boost , and as your setup is very easy to program, you can have a short try.

In my case, under 0.8 b of boost pressure, the gain between stock 20░ and increased 26░ is about 2-4 mkg of torque (between 4000 and 5700 rpm)

If you are not looking for the highest HP, you can even think to increase the timing and to lightly reduce the boost level. You won't increase HP, you will simply keep the same ....but you will increase efficiency and reduce the mileage.
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:56 AM
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Thanks for the info guys. I hope you don't mind if I pick your ear when I start jumping into this. It seems the way to go plus getting the adjustable WUR if I don't intend to go EFI.
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Old 09-22-2011, 06:02 PM
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Im about to lock my dizzy and do this exact project (already have the MSD installed.)

Can you please post or pm me your latest timing/boost chart and findings and also the specifics of how you locked the stator. Did you just put in a longer screw in the existing hole or tap a new hole (if so where to put the hole)?

Thanks in advance...
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmsy View Post
Im about to lock my dizzy and do this exact project (already have the MSD installed.)

Can you please post or pm me your latest timing/boost chart and findings and also the specifics of how you locked the stator. Did you just put in a longer screw in the existing hole or tap a new hole (if so where to put the hole)?

Thanks in advance...
Better yet, could you post to this forum the above info as this is on my bucket list of things to do as well.
I would love to see how you lock the stator/disable the vacuum mechanism and also what your timing table looks like.

Fred
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:03 AM
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Sorry for the delay guys. Been busy with non-car stuff

This was my first attempt, I drilled and tapped a hole in the metal mount below.


I didn't like the way the screw was sitting, so I drilled a new hole and went in from the top.


I removed the weights, springs and bar that goes to the pot, and the pot itself. Then fabed a cover for the hole, out of a diet coke can of all things! I put a little clear silicone around the perimeter underneath to keep out moisture.


I'm running 26* static and here's my current curve. There is more power to be gained with more advance, escpecially on boost, but I've kept it conservative because this car is 100% street.
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87 930 - Black - 3.4L/964 cams/K29/Powerhaus IC/6AL-2/B&B dual exhaust/MTX-L/235-315 Toyo R888/18" Kinesis wheels/Big Red brakes/LSD
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:09 PM
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Thanks Steve. I am going to attempt this in the next couple of weeks. I already have the msd installed so now just need to lock the dizzy.

Yes you wouldn't want the stator moving around as in the first pic you posted (the bolt from underneath).

Did you just tighten the advance shaft tight onto the rotor shaft to hold it in the max advance position? I have seen the weights riveted to the bottom in their max advance position but not sure which way to go yet.
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:04 AM
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I'm trying to remember exactly, but I either put an extra shim under where the wieghts are or an extra small washer under the screw to lock the mechanical advance. It will make sense when you get it apart.

One of these days I might open it back up and do something a little more elegant. At the time I was sorely lacking in the right tools to do something more secure. Rebuilding my SC has taken care of that problem
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Old 05-16-2012, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Helmsy View Post
Thanks in advance...
Pun intended?
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Old 05-16-2012, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Helmsy View Post
Thanks Steve. I am going to attempt this in the next couple of weeks. I already have the msd installed so now just need to lock the dizzy.

Yes you wouldn't want the stator moving around as in the first pic you posted (the bolt from underneath).

Did you just tighten the advance shaft tight onto the rotor shaft to hold it in the max advance position? I have seen the weights riveted to the bottom in their max advance position but not sure which way to go yet.
Hey Turbo guys, I am not sure if the under side of your distrubutor is the same as an SC distributor but I locked out my vacuum advance (Stator?) Maybey this will help. Here are two assemblies side by side, the assembly on the left is unmodified, the one on the right is locked. You can see that I simply found a screw that fit into the threaded hole that already exist and ground of most of the head so that it would clear the mechanical advance.




Last edited by snbush67; 08-24-2012 at 05:41 PM..
Old 08-24-2012, 05:37 PM
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I have been following this thread and finally bought the 6AL-2 unit as part of the winter rebuild.
I have not run the timing curves I am presenting here, but wanted to offer them up for opinions by you guys. I developed them trying to emulate the stock ignition curves from the factory manuals. I used the 78 California dizzy as a guideline since this is the unit installed in my 79 930.
My engine is a 3.4 with SC cams and 7.5 to 1 compression. I am limiting the boost to 0.9 bar currently and have a B&B intercooler along with headers so that I can take advantage of the extra intake charge cooling and lower boost thresholds to improve the engine response.
I did adjust the boost retard curves to take advantage of the 3bar MAP sensor and run some more timing advance under vacuum conditions to improve the low load fuel mileage. Then I start retarding under boost to finish at 20 degrees BTDC at 0.9 bar.
In case you cannot read the comment window in the image....total timing advance is set at 34 degrees BTDC. At no vacuum it retards 5 degrees to 29 BTDC like stock Euro timing or US 26 plus 3 degrees tolerance. Total boost retards 11 degrees at 1bar.
Just looking to get some comments on these curves and add some insight to this excellent thread.

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---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"

Last edited by fredmeister; 11-26-2012 at 01:02 PM..
Old 11-25-2012, 03:01 PM
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I wanted to ask again what anyone thought of my advance curves posted in the previous post.

Anyway, here are a few photos of an easy and completely reversible way i locked down the mechanical advance mechanism in my distributor. I simply removed the springs form the counterweights and wired them tight against the metal stops in a fully advanced position using steel muffler wire. The centrifugal force keeps the weights at full advance while the engine is running so the wire idoes not need to take any loading, its just there to keep everything in place at low speeds.
The nice thing with my idea is you dont need to drill or tap anything and worry about a screw coming lose. Its fully reversible so you can put it back to stock without any sign of alteration.
As far as the vacuum advance plate I leave that unit intact and just leave both ports open to atmosphere. the internal springs inside the vaccum canister keep the advance plate from moving around as long as you dont apply a signal to the nipples. This works out better than pinning the advance plate down internally....which I feel is unnecesary.

So does anyone have any thoughts on the MSD timing curves I posted above? I wanted some comments for improvement before I ran them in the car. Was worried about still having too much timing on boost.....and secondly not enough advance at low rpm to have good throttle response off idle.

Fred
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"

Last edited by fredmeister; 12-05-2012 at 06:57 PM..
Old 12-05-2012, 06:48 PM
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