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G Man:

If your going to do a widebody project you'll need to start a thread on it.


Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.
Old 12-31-2011, 06:08 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #261 (permalink)
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Cole its going to be a very wide body project and I don't think I will start any more threads I just don't think there is that much interest for what I got to say except for a few individuals. Happy New Year Cole I am really impressed with the quality of your work its going to be a classic and should be in Excellence.
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Last edited by gsmith660; 12-31-2011 at 06:49 PM..
Old 12-31-2011, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cole930 View Post
"...Thailand ----- Gives me chills, I spent 16 1/2 mo. ,working,
out of Udorn in 1962-64, it sucked. And when I was ,working, in the
neighboring countries it really sucked. A part of my misspent youth
I try to never remember. God, I may even have children and
grandchildren there. I understand it's a wonderful place to visit now,
hope you enjoy.

Been lurking about enjoying this thread. Curious, if you remember any F104 fighter jocks from that time? My ol' man was flying out of there 'bout that time.
Cheers
Old 12-31-2011, 07:05 PM
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pdq,

I spent all my time being thrown out of Air America UH34D's into no name places. I do remember F105's
being at the Udorn now and then. Our little band of missfits didn't socialize much. Your dad had it tough as
most of those guy's played chicken with SAM sites all day. They did have F104's at Da Nang in 65.
My sincerest respects to your father.

Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 01-01-2012 at 11:41 AM..
Old 12-31-2011, 09:43 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #264 (permalink)
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Some food for thought:

Been kicking around addressing heat issues with the turbo and how to
cut down on radiant heat transfer. I think the Zork helps vs an entire
exhaust system radiating heat but it is still going to get plenty hot.

I found a pic. I had saved from Chris at TK. Porsche factory motor
with a small wrap around heat shield behind the turbo. From what I
have read some say it will cut the heat transfer from the turbo by 50%.




Dug some scrap out and made one for the Sled. Mounted it using the
back two turbo mounting bolts and formed it by wrapping it around
an empty oxygen tank. Worked pretty slick.




I went on line and found some 2000* heat sheet to line the inside of
rear bumper with. Between the wrap and the louvers in the bumper
that should protect the bumper and get rid of a lot of that heat.





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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 01-02-2012 at 07:06 PM..
Old 01-02-2012, 11:30 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #265 (permalink)
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Hey Cole is your heat shield black or shiny I can't tell, if it is black make it shiny because the reflective surface also cut down on the heat transfer by reflecting radiant heat away from the shield it might also help to make it v shaped or angle it to reflect the heat wave away from the turbo as well to reduce heat soak from reflecting the heat right back at the turbo. May not work but sounds like it might in theory.
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" Porsche there is no substitute" I always liked that saying. Air cooled is the only way to go!
76 911 C.R.A.P. Gruppe #2 BIG time TURBO C.R.A.P. Bitz EFI/EDIS Now MegaSquirt 3
76 Blazer also restored by me

Last edited by gsmith660; 01-02-2012 at 12:06 PM..
Old 01-02-2012, 11:57 AM
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The (SR-71) blackbird was painted black because of a principle that says that good heat absorbers are also good heat radiators. So, I would not mess with the heat reflector. This is infrared radiation. If the radiation were visible light then shiny stuff would be better.
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:01 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #267 (permalink)
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I just noticed that the mounting bracket on that factory motor is basically stock with some mods so why couldn't your modified bracket be used for any motor? If for nothing else just for the cool factor.
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" Porsche there is no substitute" I always liked that saying. Air cooled is the only way to go!
76 911 C.R.A.P. Gruppe #2 BIG time TURBO C.R.A.P. Bitz EFI/EDIS Now MegaSquirt 3
76 Blazer also restored by me
Old 01-02-2012, 12:03 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #268 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flieger View Post
The (SR-71) blackbird was painted black because of a principle that says that good heat absorbers are also good heat radiators. So, I would not mess with the heat reflector. This is infrared radiation. If the radiation were visible light then shiny stuff would be better.
Black Body Radiator theory.. Same reason virtually ALL servo motors in the industrial world of any consequence are black..
Looking good old guy!
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:43 PM
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Flieger, just a comment on your color and heat post.
Dark colors tend to heat up more and reflect/have lower emission, because they absorb the energy. Where as light color, silver reflect more energy.

To my knowledge, aviation to include night and IR operations, it does not matter what wave length we are talking about i.e. IR to visible range. The same physical properties apply.

The SR-71 did not reflect much visible light, but it did emit a lot of heat/IR "light". It was easily detected despite of the efforts to keep it stealthy.
Good thing it was able to outfly its threats.

I would say Gmans theory does apply,in theory, to include the bending of the sheet metal. To what degree it would work, I have no idea.

Cole, really nice work.

just my 2C
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flieger View Post
The (SR-71) blackbird was painted black because of a principle that says that good heat absorbers are also good heat radiators. So, I would not mess with the heat reflector. This is infrared radiation. If the radiation were visible light then shiny stuff would be better.
From schoolphysics.co.uk first website I went to pertaining to infrared radiation:

Black surfaces are the best emitters of heat radiation.
Black surfaces are the best absorbers of heat radiation.
Shiny surfaces are the best reflectors of heat radiation.
Shiny surfaces are poor absorbers of heat radiation.
Glass will not transmit heat radiation.

That would suggest a black reflector would in fact move the heat closer to the motor just sayin.
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" Porsche there is no substitute" I always liked that saying. Air cooled is the only way to go!
76 911 C.R.A.P. Gruppe #2 BIG time TURBO C.R.A.P. Bitz EFI/EDIS Now MegaSquirt 3
76 Blazer also restored by me
Old 01-02-2012, 01:09 PM
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God I love this forum !!!!!


We are defiantly having way to much fun here. We need to take a pill
guys this is not a SR71. It's a 32 year old crate with a turbo on it. If a
non reflective piece of tin is good enough for the factory I'm sure it will
work fine on this Old Sled. No matter what color it is it has to be better
than nothing and the factory just let their's rust. Do you suppose rust
has some secret reflective properties we don't know about?

Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 01-02-2012 at 02:11 PM..
Old 01-02-2012, 01:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #272 (permalink)
 
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if you made a similar heat sheild out of 2mm thick aluminum sheet held on by the two back side turbo bolts would it melt?

they do have a bad habit of glowing red hot sometimes..
Old 01-02-2012, 01:51 PM
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"32 year old crate" all the more reason to make it as effective as possible we have many examples of where the factory didn't make the best mouse trap I would suggest stainless steel that is what the heat shield on my SBC 350 has on the starter and is quite effective
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" Porsche there is no substitute" I always liked that saying. Air cooled is the only way to go!
76 911 C.R.A.P. Gruppe #2 BIG time TURBO C.R.A.P. Bitz EFI/EDIS Now MegaSquirt 3
76 Blazer also restored by me
Old 01-02-2012, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsmith660 View Post
From schoolphysics.co.uk first website I went to pertaining to infrared radiation:

Black surfaces are the best emitters of heat radiation.
Black surfaces are the best absorbers of heat radiation.
Shiny surfaces are the best reflectors of heat radiation.
Shiny surfaces are poor absorbers of heat radiation.
Glass will not transmit heat radiation.

That would suggest a black reflector would in fact move the heat closer to the motor just sayin.
That makes sense then. The Habu was getting really freakin' hot because it was going so fast (atmospheric friction). There was hardly any air up there to get convective cooling so they wanted to maximize the radiative cooling.

So, since the heat was not being radiated onto the Blackbird, but rather being created in it by the atmospheric friction, they painted it black to emit the infra-red radiation.

Yes, it made it visible to IR detectors but they had electronic countermeasures and not much could touch them at Mach 3.2 and 85,000 feet or more in altitude.

(I've been reading a great book on the whole A-12->SR-71 program by Crickmore).
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Suspension by Rebel Racing, Serviced by TLG Auto, Brakes by PMB Performance
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Old 01-02-2012, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cole930 View Post
God I love this forum !!!!!


We are defiantly having way to much fun here. We need to take a pill
guys this is not a SR71. It's a 32 year old crate with a turbo on it. If a
non reflective piece of tin is good enough for the factory I'm sure it will
work fine on this Old Sled. No matter what color it is it has to be better
than nothing and the factory just let their's rust. Do you suppose rust
has some secret reflective properties we don't know about?

Cole
hehehehe
I love this forum also, Cole.
So many different ideas.
It would take years to gather the knowledge you can get here in a month.
Great work,Cole.
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Old 01-02-2012, 03:27 PM
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If you want something to absorb heat, then color it black. If you want something to give up or release it's heat efficiently, then color it light (i.e, don't paint it for Gods sake). All things considered equal (as in the density of the material you're dealing with), I would keep an IC as light a color as possible...you want it to give up it's heat not retain it - or for that matter - not gain additional heat from surrounding engine components.

But then, physics be damned. Dark vs. light colors may result in one or two degrees difference in intake air temperature....in which case, BFD. Paint it something eyecatching like fuschia.
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Old 01-02-2012, 03:44 PM
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If you have heat being radiated onto something then make it shiny. They do use that gold foil for this in motorsport. If something is getting hot by other means and does not have heat being radiated onto it then paint it black. As Mick Jagger would say.

So, I guess shiny is best for most things in this application.
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1971 chassis, 2.7RS spec MFI engine, suspension mods, lightened

Suspension by Rebel Racing, Serviced by TLG Auto, Brakes by PMB Performance
http://www.flickr.com/photos/max_911_fahrer/
Old 01-02-2012, 03:50 PM
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This is a timely post since I am going to be taking a Heat Transfer class this quarter (which starts tomorrow).
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Suspension by Rebel Racing, Serviced by TLG Auto, Brakes by PMB Performance
http://www.flickr.com/photos/max_911_fahrer/
Old 01-02-2012, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flieger View Post
This is a timely post since I am going to be taking a Heat Transfer class this quarter (which starts tomorrow).
You are now committed to answer this oft discussed topic. Is an IC more efficient at removing heat from the intake air when dark or light colored? Not to mention the insulating factor of a few microns of paint.

I bow to education...unfortunately my education is in the human and microbiological physical sciences which makes me sadly unqualified to talk engineering topics. But I continue to try to fake it....
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Old 01-02-2012, 03:59 PM
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