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Alan L's Avatar
 
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930 cylinders/heads

Just getting as organised parts -wise as I can before I pull part of my engine down looking for problems. I have a spare set of P/Cs 2nd hand. Just had a look at them. The cylinders dont have the head gasket groove.
What era of the series did they change to gaskets/grooves?
My engine is a type 68 which I think puts it in the 86/87 era. Presumably this has gaskets.
Does this mean my current heads wont fit/seal on the spare cylinders?
If so, can these cylinders be grooved to mate with the heads?
(I find it remarkable Porsche could even contemplate let alone sucessfully seal one of these high performance engines with no head gaskets - mind boggling)
Next Q - where do I find the piston group weights on these pistons. I do have a number on the underside - 97P12+. Is that it?
Thanks
Alan

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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 06-20-2011, 09:02 PM
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FYI: my 87 is non-head gasket (pretty sure they all are from this era) . . .

An interesting observation about non-head gasket engines - Ducati does this as well with their air-cooled models (really surprised me when I saw that for the first time).
Old 06-20-2011, 09:22 PM
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Fascinating. Cant work out why they dont leak - but obviously porsche and Ducati have.
pelican list 930 head gaskets - so what era do they belong too?
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 06-20-2011, 09:38 PM
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Alan, you may want to post the question over on the engine re-building section..
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:30 PM
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Hi ya Todd. If I dont get the info here I guess I can do that. Just the Q is specific to 930s so thought I should try here first. Will see how we go.
Thanks
Good to hear from you again. Coles post brought me to tears. Wish I was over there sometimes.
regards
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 06-20-2011, 11:00 PM
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The early 3.0 has sealing rings, the later 3.3 does not. If you have grooves in your heads then you have flame rings, a common modification for head to cylinder sealing in high boost applications.
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Last edited by lite75; 06-21-2011 at 06:13 AM..
Old 06-21-2011, 06:07 AM
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Havent got the engine apart yet - so dont know about the heads.
Amazing that they ditched the sealing rings in a turbo/high pressure motor. Any idea why they would go down that track?
Looks like my spare cylinders will be useful after all, if I need them. Hoping not to.
Are the piston weight groups (- + ++) on the underside by the wrist pin boss? I have some numbers under there, followed by a + (on my spares)
Thanks
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 06-21-2011, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lite75 View Post
The early 3.0 has sealing rings, the later 3.3 does not. If you have grooves in your heads then you have flame rings, a common modification for head to cylinder sealing in high boost applications.
OK, so this is weird. pelican list head gasket rings for 3.3 engine '78 0nwards?
How does this work?
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 06-22-2011, 12:18 AM
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All 3.3 have base gaskets. They are a small cooper gasket that is in between the cylinder and case.

Robert
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Old 06-22-2011, 06:10 AM
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The 1976-77 911 Turbo Carrera 3.0L had a "CE ring" type head gasket, similar to a non-turbo of that era.
The 1978-89 930 3.3L did not have head gaskets -- straight metal-to-metal sealing on precision machined flat surfaces.
The 1991-92 C2T had flat steel shims "gaskets" between the heads and cylinders.
The 1994 Turbo 3.6 had the same metal sealing rings as the 964/993 engines.
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Old 06-22-2011, 08:34 AM
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Ok. I just watched a 87 3.3 being built and I saw a small thin copper gasket with cut notches being placed between the head and the base. I'll call the shop to make sure I'm not going nuts.

Robert
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1985 Euro Red Carrera Coupe."SOLD",1985 White Targa Carrera. "SOLD",1977 Yellow 930. "SOLD",1991 Black 964 C4. "SOLD",2002 Silver 996 C4 Cab "SOLD",
2001 Polar Silver 996 twin Turbo
Old 06-22-2011, 11:43 AM
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Thanks Chris, but why does Pelican have cylinder head gaskets listed for 3.3 from '78-89? Edit 930-100-908-02-M17
Or is it a pelican error?
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)

Last edited by Alan L; 06-22-2011 at 12:38 PM..
Old 06-22-2011, 11:54 AM
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Mix and Match?

Can mix and match the pistons and cylenders from these groups? Say P/C from 76-77 and heads from 78-89? Or P/C from 91 and heads from 78-89?
Old 06-22-2011, 08:40 PM
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Alan,
The Pelican number 930-100-908-02-M17 is a cylinder head gasket SET, it isn't a set of HEAD gaskets. It's all the gaskets you need to reinstall your heads, i.e. rocker cover gaskets, camshaft housing gaskets and a few other random bits that I can't recall.
The '86 era 930 engines categorically do not have gaskets between the cylinder and the head (unless they have been modified).
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Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 06-23-2011, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by occb2 View Post
Ok. I just watched a 87 3.3 being built and I saw a small thin copper gasket with cut notches being placed between the head and the base. I'll call the shop to make sure I'm not going nuts.

Robert
Robert,
The gasket you describe goes between the base of the cylinder and the crankcase, NOT the top of cylinder and head.
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Bill
1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
Day job ... www.sspowdercoat.com.au
Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 06-23-2011, 03:29 AM
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Many thanks Billjam. You have put me out of my misery.
Alan

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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 06-23-2011, 02:50 PM
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