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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth , Western Australia
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Talking Installing a 91 Turbo into my 88 -911

Hey guys i am installing a 91 c2 turbo engine into non turbo 911 coupe.

i have looked around but cant seem to find anyone else who has done this which is strange???

anyways i was hoping that someone has some experience in this? i bascially got everything as per below:

• 1991-c2-turbo-engine-
• secondary fuel pump and line
• engine control units
• wiring for control units
• complete clutch and flywheel assembly
• exhuast system is from Rarely8 bought this as the c2 system wont fit.


i have also got myself 930 brakes septup to install & i have a turbo tail ready to paint.

thoughts & suggestions on the install would be great.
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MELO 911

911 3.2 CARRERA '88
JEEP CHEROKEE KJ '04

Last edited by MELO-911; 10-06-2011 at 09:25 PM..
Old 07-03-2011, 11:02 PM
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Mr. C
 
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Can't wait to see it all installed.
Old 07-04-2011, 04:32 AM
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Sounds like a great upgrade. Remember lots of pics
Old 07-04-2011, 04:51 AM
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you only need to run ONE fuel pump up front if you use the Bosch high output 044 pump that's what I use, getting 428 rwhp, bought it from Turbo Kraft, in AZ
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1986 944 turbo -first car
1997 993 Cab 6 speed-sold
1992 964 C2 turbo
SOLD, 911GT ,CIS, 428 fwhp 450 trq, Carrillo rods, 964 cams, TT retainers,7.5 comp 1.1 bar boost 320 ml black fuel head 009 injectors, 044 pumps, 60-1 T4/T3 dual scroll turbo
Old 07-04-2011, 06:03 AM
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EFI > CIS,

take one step forward two steps back.

JK, kinda, will be fun!!
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'89 911 M491+Turbo
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Old 07-05-2011, 01:23 AM
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why not use the EFI from the n/a engine ?!?
Old 07-05-2011, 06:32 AM
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Yes! Call Todd at Protomotive to make a chip for your application to use the Motronic.

Last edited by Tippy; 07-05-2011 at 11:24 AM..
Old 07-05-2011, 07:39 AM
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Think you mean Motronic. Motec is a different animal...
Old 07-05-2011, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce M. View Post
Think you mean Motronic. Motec is a different animal...
Yep, thanks for the clarification.
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Cory - turbo'd '87 C3.2 Guards/Blk, 3.4, 7.5:1 CR P & C's, soon to be 993SS cams and GSXR 750 ITB's fed by 964 intake, Borg-Warner S366 turbo @ 1.4 bar, Treadstone full bay IC, TiAL F46 WG, HKS 1 1/2" BOV, twin 044 pumps, MegaSquirt 2 (v3.57 board) w/EDIS, Tramont wheels (285's rr, 225's frt), Big Reds frt, 993 rr., tower brace, MOMO wheel
Old 07-05-2011, 11:24 AM
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the 044 fuel pump is for the CIS turbo motor 78 thu 94 one pump, 91 c2turbo is CIS
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1986 944 turbo -first car
1997 993 Cab 6 speed-sold
1992 964 C2 turbo
SOLD, 911GT ,CIS, 428 fwhp 450 trq, Carrillo rods, 964 cams, TT retainers,7.5 comp 1.1 bar boost 320 ml black fuel head 009 injectors, 044 pumps, 60-1 T4/T3 dual scroll turbo
Old 07-05-2011, 12:31 PM
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You should really since you are already in there go EFI hands down you will have superior control over various points / parameters that jetronic just does not.

But I do understand budget is an issue for most. Good luck n' hope it's what you expected.
Old 07-05-2011, 01:32 PM
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I'm using my factory 930 fuel pumps on my EFI set-up. Works great. And since your car is already wired for EFI it seems to me the cost of the chip would be less than going back to the CIS stone age
Old 07-05-2011, 02:28 PM
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My stock (they are both new though) 930 pumps are running my 993 lump with ease, and i'm running a 5.0 bar regulator and near 520bhp. I'm told that a good condition set of stock 930 pumps will run up to 600bhp on an EFI set up, plenty of fuel....
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87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
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Old 07-05-2011, 02:35 PM
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Jonathan...your twin turbo is awesome. Did you have to rebuild the engine after your purchase. I read the turbos were shot.

If you had to do it all over again (the twin turbo conversion), would you do anything different?

I have to pick up this issue

>Caesar


Last edited by SAY - 642; 07-05-2011 at 05:42 PM..
Old 07-05-2011, 03:43 PM
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thanks guys anyone actually done the upgrade/swap?

i was looking at EFI but as Schwarzeritter says budget is something to consider, it arrives in 1 week so home work on cost & installation is needed. not a gun on this for sure.

expectations - not sure really. the story is that my current 3.2 needs a rebuild & here in Australia cost to rebuild are $$$$$ & with cheaper prices in the US plus the strong AUD made more/some sense to get something different.

once it arrives & the hard work begins i will take pics & post along.

your suggestions & experiences are greatly appreciated.

Cristian
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Old 07-05-2011, 05:33 PM
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you have everything for your build
Old 07-05-2011, 05:45 PM
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Mating the engine to your gearbox and mounting them in the car shouldn't be an issue, the toughest part will be replacing the motronic with the Jetronic loom, getting fuel and ignition all working. I've been around this forum for a while and I don't know anyone who has already done this.

Burning a chip is not going to solve the problem, you still has to convert the 965 engine to EFI to use it... injector blocks or 3.2 intake, fuel rails, crank angle sensor etc.... Also you really wouldn't want to use Motronic, better off with an after market system.
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAY - 642 View Post
Jonathan...your twin turbo is awesome. Did you have to rebuild the engine after your purchase. I read the turbos were shot.

If you had to do it all over again (the twin turbo conversion), would you do anything different?

I have to pick up this issue

>Caesar

Cheers Caesar, don't really want to hijack the thread, but the plain answer would be that it was a long learning curve, even when paying other professionals to do the work!

The 993 turbo that the engine came out of had been in a shunt, which ruined the exhaust system and one of the turbos. At that point i should have simply swallowed hard and bought the 520ps RS Tuning kit, but it's hellish expensive as it's a proper, engine dyno tested and proven package built by the best in the business. With RS you really do get what you pay for!!
Little did i know that the engine originally had that package fitted before i bought it, so the right cams were in there, and the turbos, even though broken were the mega bucks K24/26's..... I had thrown them in my company skip, luckily it's a huge skip and only gets emptied once a year, so when i found out i dug them out, sent them off to be repaired and rebuilt....

I had opted to use local 'mappers' and got ripped off, 'again'....... Long story..... Couple of pairs of smaller K16/24 turbos used....
Anyway, point being is i would not mess about if i had my time over again. I also wouldn't try and mate a 930 4 speed to the 993 engine, it didn't really work well as the starter motor doesn't line up and you have to compromise. With the G50 it's awesome.

Car is now running better than it ever has done, engine has recently been rebuilt with Arrow rods and ARP studs etc...It's perfect off boost, starts instantaneously, drives beautifully, and the boost is completely managed by the Motronic ECU so i have all of the stock 993 turbo safety features, knock control etc, and if there is an issue 'limp mode' will only give 0.5bar as it does with a stock car. Other than mechanical failure the engine is now truly bullet proof. RS say on a fresh engine this package will give complete reliability for 50k + miles, and that would be using it on the German Autobahns.... Just a shame i didn't have the ECU when the magazine article was done.


To the original poster, i don't know a great deal about using NA motronic on a turbo engine, but if it can at least be used for all of the 'off boost' stuff, warm up, idle, cruise.... And then someone knows how to add enrichment for WOT, then i would say Motronic is the tits. It's just a pity that very few people in the world can really map it properly..... I know there are plenty of people on here who have turbo'd their carrera, so those would be the ones to ask
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87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
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Old 07-06-2011, 04:34 AM
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well i have been reading plenty on EFI conversions & lots of different ways to go about it.
as suggested using my current EFI parts would be i guess more cost effective.

anyone have a link to a EFI conversion using Carerra parts

hmm more reading & i question the actaul need to change to EFI??? i mean apart from more modern tech & been able to measure/monitor more parts of the engine what is wrong with keeping the CIS system.
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JEEP CHEROKEE KJ '04

Last edited by MELO-911; 07-07-2011 at 11:47 PM.. Reason: more questions after reading
Old 07-07-2011, 04:45 PM
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The 930 CIS intake has been adapted to use EFI injectors you can buy the bosses from bitzracing and take the phenolic blocks to a machine shop and have them fit the bosses but the 3.2 intake I think flows better than the 930 manifold. My take is if you have invested the high dollars for a 91 turbo motor then now is not the time to cut costs do it right from the start you will thank yourself later EFI with something that you can tune sell the motronic system and it will finance a megasquirt system and electronic ignition get rid of the dizzy too you will thank yourself also on how stable the timing is and how smooth the idle is both of those mods really tame a raging lion and make the experience more enjoyable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spence88mph View Post
Mating the engine to your gearbox and mounting them in the car shouldn't be an issue, the toughest part will be replacing the motronic with the Jetronic loom, getting fuel and ignition all working. I've been around this forum for a while and I don't know anyone who has already done this.

Burning a chip is not going to solve the problem, you still has to convert the 965 engine to EFI to use it... injector blocks or 3.2 intake, fuel rails, crank angle sensor etc.... Also you really wouldn't want to use Motronic, better off with an after market system.
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Old 08-05-2011, 05:03 AM
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