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Camshaft appears stuck

The left one (facing pulley) came right out. Is there a secret to the right?
Old 07-05-2011, 04:07 AM
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what year is the car? some of the later 964 and later had a powersteering pump connected to the back of the cam shaft.
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Old 07-05-2011, 05:43 AM
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1987 930 - stock - so far as I know. The cam appears is if it will not pass through a bearing opening. The end/rear Cam bearing "journal", and the next in-line towards the pulley, will not pass.
Old 07-05-2011, 06:45 AM
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are all your rocker arms removed?
Silly question but not sure where your starting from.
All the jourmals are the same size so they must pass thru the cam housing.
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:05 AM
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All rockers are out.
Old 07-05-2011, 10:24 AM
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Very tight tolerances there. Might just be hung up. However it's likely air-pump pulley on the back side. Is the engine out of the car?
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:43 AM
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Engine is out on stand. Air pump is off, oil cooler is off. I can't see anything in the way. Spent a good 1/2 hour turning the cam to every degree in a circle while pulling, Supporting back end of the cam, "noodging" , talking sweetly to it, talking mean to it, begging, cursing, If I stop for flowers on my way home it can replace my wife.
Old 07-05-2011, 10:47 AM
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I can still move the cam the 2" inches after it released. What now? It will rotate when extracted the 2" but that is silly tight - (unlike the wife). I didn't see any others having this trouble listed on board. I will recheck everything tonight. This is a pisser.
Old 07-05-2011, 10:57 AM
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To remove it try feeding it out the back (flywheel side) of the engine. It should slide in from the front though to rebuild it right.
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---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 07-08-2011, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredmeister View Post
To remove it try feeding it out the back (flywheel side) of the engine. It should slide in from the front though to rebuild it right.
Fred - that did it !!!. Camshaft is out. TGIS - Sunday and I'm much relieved. Thought my cam was a one off, odd ball, POS thingey that would result in even more $$$.

Thanks Again Fredmeister - your suggestion worked. I ordered a replacement plug. What type of sealant is used for this plug? Loctite 574? The JB weld? or the Curli-T?

Also - I'm thinking to replace the rocker shafts, cone bearings and nut, and cam bolt. Any problems with this part replacement - new with old an issue?

Time for a beer and celebration.
Old 07-10-2011, 12:29 PM
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Try sliding it back in from the chain case side and see if it hangs up again and where.
Old 07-10-2011, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youfamissim View Post
Fred - that did it !!!. Camshaft is out. TGIS - Sunday and I'm much relieved. Thought my cam was a one off, odd ball, POS thingey that would result in even more $$$.

Thanks Again Fredmeister - your suggestion worked. I ordered a replacement plug. What type of sealant is used for this plug? Loctite 574? The JB weld? or the Curli-T?

Also - I'm thinking to replace the rocker shafts, cone bearings and nut, and cam bolt. Any problems with this part replacement - new with old an issue?

Time for a beer and celebration.
You're welcome, I am glad i could help out. Thats what this site is for.
JFairman is right though you need to determine where its hanging up since it must slide in from the chain ramp side when rebuilding.
As far as the plug, use JB Weld, but be careful not to goop too much just enuff to seal the edges. You dont want the JB weld leaking inside the area of the last cam bearing journal plus it will make very hard to remove in the future if the need arises.
Something is funky with the cam journals or one of the cam housing bearing areas are perhaps damaged, as the cam should have slid out with a little effort.
Good luck keep us posted.
Fred
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 07-10-2011, 04:52 PM
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I am a happy guy today. Cam coming out = made my month. Visions of dollars danced in my head... as in new heads needed, head work, aye yie yie!

I was reading the web for a solution to the stuck cam and found little help. Some 928 owners noted the cams must come out reversed, one front, the other back. I planned to do that if all else failed - it did. Before removing out the back, I inspected each cam housing bearing in the heads. Some with my fingers - I noticed no imperfections. The cam initially came out far enough for the rear cam journal to entirely enter the next housing bearing. The journal in front of the rear journal was entering the next housing bearing - it was there I focused a lot of attention - nothing seen or felt.

I know my digits are not calibrated (yet) but they are sensitive - down to a .001 of an inch variations detected - according to scientists.

The cam was flawless upon inspection.

I did have to tap the cam out - used the plastic end of screw driver (No hammer) - so not much "umph" was needed. Once the rear journal passed its housing bearing the cam came right out. I could not do that - tap the cam - extracting the cam out the front. Nor did I want to force the cam. I'm hoping it was just one of those things. Now it is out I can inspect the housing bearings better.

The engine ran fine prior to this engine work and nothing (except the one cam) has gone awry during dismantling.

Any advice on replacing the rocker arm components good idea/bad idea?
Old 07-11-2011, 06:05 AM
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Replacing the rocker arm bolt hardware is not really necessary unless yours are damaged. The main thing you want to do is replace the bushings and polish the rocker shafts.
If you are changing cams you need to regrind the rocker arm pads as well but if you are reusing the cams then mark them so they go back against the same cam lobes or you will create wear issues.
Look into buying the RSR rocker shaft seals as well to prevent leaks in the cam towers that make the engine messy. These are expensive but do a good job. Do it while you got the top end out.
See ya
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---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 07-11-2011, 02:56 PM
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Thanks Fred. I was looking at the shaft seals and could not find literature on them. I suppose these fit into the two recesses in the shaft??? I will add them to the engine plug order.

I will replace the cams, so new rocker arms, or reground rockers are needed - Roger.

If I replace the rockers, I considered new shafts would be also be requisite. Advice?

Another question - the cams sprocket (both) showed scratching - on the teeth facing the sprocket only. These were not deep, but did cause me to question if this wear type was normal - Slack until tensioner is fully engaged? Misaligned? I have new ramps and all the wear items in the cam assembly = gaskets, o-rings, pins, keys, and am considering adding new sprockets. I have new chains as well.

Fred, I want to do this right. I'm over 10G into this build... a few more thou was anticipated. My OCD - dirt, leaks, etc... has me venturing into other domains - the fan is fugly and that too will be cleaned and painted - spruced up. My buddy who helped me with the drop put a worm in my head when he suggested - WHy not do the pistons while yer at this? If that was not so costly, I probably would. The point being I want the motor clean, tight, and as pretty as I can make it while it is out. I have a pressure plate and clutch, new shocks, sway bars, and I'm considering a 993 brake package.

So Fred - if there is anything else you'd recommend, please tell me. Again, Thank you so much for all your help
Old 07-12-2011, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youfamissim View Post
Another question - the cams sprocket (both) showed scratching - on the teeth facing the sprocket only. These were not deep, but did cause me to question if this wear type was normal - Slack until tensioner is fully engaged? Misaligned? I have new ramps and all the wear items in the cam assembly = gaskets, o-rings, pins, keys, and am considering adding new sprockets. I have new chains as well.
That sounds like misaligned sprockets to me. Post a picture so we can have a look and confirm if you can.

Bill
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Old 07-12-2011, 07:07 AM
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Rocker shafts are usually reused. One side often loos more scuffed than the other, but you can install them so the scuffed side is away from the cam (where it won't be under the same pressure) you can spread out the wear.

If you can feel a ridge between the wear area and the outsides which don't get worn, then it is time to consider replacing them.

Guiding all those cam bearings through all those journals is tricky. But you have plenty of time to practice with the cam out and the cam carrier out. It is a bit hard to visualize how a lip could form on the flywheel side of any of the journals. Equally hard to think of what would allow journals through a bearing area one way, but not the other (unless it was that you could get more brute force on it in the one direction.

How come you couldn't try to tap it out the regular way, once the cap was off?

Tightening the head studs on reassembly is always one of those worry points. I have the cam in for this, and keep turning it as I go through the head stud pattern. As long as it will turn freely (or as freely as the thickish Torco assembly lube will allow) when you have tightened the final bolt, all is well. You might not think that sturdy cam carrier can bend, but it can flex, and a little is all it takes. So far, loosening the head nuts and retorquing has always done the trick to free things up.
Old 07-12-2011, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youfamissim View Post
Thanks Fred. I was looking at the shaft seals and could not find literature on them. I suppose these fit into the two recesses in the shaft??? I will add them to the engine plug order.

I will replace the cams, so new rocker arms, or reground rockers are needed - Roger.

If I replace the rockers, I considered new shafts would be also be requisite. Advice?

Another question - the cams sprocket (both) showed scratching - on the teeth facing the sprocket only. These were not deep, but did cause me to question if this wear type was normal - Slack until tensioner is fully engaged? Misaligned? I have new ramps and all the wear items in the cam assembly = gaskets, o-rings, pins, keys, and am considering adding new sprockets. I have new chains as well.

Fred, I want to do this right. I'm over 10G into this build... a few more thou was anticipated. My OCD - dirt, leaks, etc... has me venturing into other domains - the fan is fugly and that too will be cleaned and painted - spruced up. My buddy who helped me with the drop put a worm in my head when he suggested - WHy not do the pistons while yer at this? If that was not so costly, I probably would. The point being I want the motor clean, tight, and as pretty as I can make it while it is out. I have a pressure plate and clutch, new shocks, sway bars, and I'm considering a 993 brake package.

So Fred - if there is anything else you'd recommend, please tell me. Again, Thank you so much for all your help
I would consider upgrading to ARP rod bolts and head studs and anything else that improves durability/longevity. Maybe reconsider the 993 brake upgrade and save the dough for engine parts. I found the stock 930 brakes plenty powerful as long as you improve the cooling to them. I track my car all the time and never had a brake issue that race pads and fluid did not alleviate.
I went and upgraded the intercooler to a B&B and also got headers with the K27S turbo. These improved performance drastically.
Good luck.
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 07-17-2011, 11:10 AM
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