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89 930.
 
Benny771's Avatar
 
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Question Checking fuel pressure cold. Pics.HELP!

Alright, this is what i have done and what i have got.

Connected the gage as per the shop manual on a totally cold car.
Disconnected the plug (greenish) behind the air-filter.
1989 930.
started the pumps: Valve closed 6.5 bar?
Valve open 2.7 bar?

Its 24 degrees
See below for bleed off times
Does any of this sound right? I have never messed with the WUR,why the change ?



Last edited by Benny771; 07-07-2011 at 04:08 PM.. Reason: errors
Old 07-06-2011, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Disconnected the plug (greenish) behind the air-filter.
Just to run the pumps without jumpering the relay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny771 View Post
Valve closed 6.5 bar?
I don't have a manual for an 89. However, spec for system pressure for a 1978-81 930 is

6.0-6.7 bar, "adjust value" 6.2-6.5 bar.

I've always been a little foggy as to the meaning of "adjust value" - I always figured that would be the values that you would adjust it to..

Either way, 6.5 bar would be in spec - for my car...

Quote:
Valve open 3.7 bar?
Warm control pressure spec is 3.65 bar +/- 0.2 bar for a 78-81.

Quote:
Its 24 degrees out
The graph says the CCP (which is what you're measuring if the bi-thermal strip in the WUR is disconnected) for my car should be between somewhere around 1.9-2.3 bar for that temp.

But if you've been supplying power to the bi-mettalic strip in the WUR for any length of time, then you might be measuring WCP.

Or something in-between. Depending on how long the WUR was powered for.

Conventional wisdom says you only get one shot at the CCP per day - soon as you apply power or start it, you're done for the day.

Quote:
Pumps off, valve open,lowers from 3.7 to 2.2 over 30 sec
Over 4 mins at 1.6 bar
For the cars I have manuals for, you need "after 10 minutes: 1.6 bar at least" and "after 20 minutes: 1.4 bar at least".

Quote:
I have never messed with the WUR,why the change ?
Darned if I know - what change?
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'77 S with '78 930 power and a few other things.
Old 07-06-2011, 10:28 AM
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89 930.
 
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Thanks for the answers. The changes i made are here on a post i put up the day before.
Little help with wur and idle ??

The car use to start with no problems. Now, i have to play with it.
If the car leaks down to fast am i looking at the " check valve" in the pump?

It has a new accumulator.
Old 07-06-2011, 10:34 AM
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Sounds perfectly fine.

You still have the power connected to the wur so as soon as you apply power you are heating up the strip inside and moving toward warm pressure which is ur 3.7bar.

To obtain cold pressure you need to disconnect the power cable from the wur when you are testing. Leave it until it's bone cold (overnight) and test again in the morning.
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Old 07-06-2011, 04:15 PM
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do i unplug the connector behing the air filter as well? Or just the WUR.
Is the leakdown ok?

And on a sidebar, would the o2 sensor have anything to do with what is going on? I have never changed it since i got the car (3 years now)..

Thanks BIGTIME for answering.

Last edited by Benny771; 07-06-2011 at 05:07 PM..
Old 07-06-2011, 05:04 PM
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The green plug behind the air filter will run the pumps to allow the test.

The plug on the WUR will warm up the metallic strip inside and raise pressure to "warm" pressure.
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:30 PM
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Question

Alright,

Try # 2

23 degrees outside 55 humid. Car cold (overnight +) wur unplugged before test.

Valve closed 6.5 bar

Valve open 2.7 bar


Leak-down:
10 min = 1.7 bar
20 min = 1.55 bar


This is for a 1989 930. Anyone got the #'s for this year or close ??
Are these #'s ok ?
Anyone ?? Bueller ?
Old 07-07-2011, 07:49 AM
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I just finished testing my '87, and originally was citing the '79 specs that you have and figured I was OK. Then someone supplied me w/ different specs for like '86 and up.

You're aiming for system pressure of 6.9-7.1, with a high of 7.4 IIRC. I set mine to 7.0-7.1 ish. Reading the AFR thread a few days ago someone suggested going as high as 7.4 to find fuel in higher rev's, but others suggest that you're reaching the point of diminishing returns as the fuel pump cannot provide enough flow for that high pressure.

Regardless, play w/ the shims and bump it up to 7 or so.

What is your start issue? Hot? Cold? What's it doing / not doing specifically? I just replaced my accumulator and it decidedly cured my hard hot-start issue, as well as no longer 'sputters to a start' on 3/4/5/6 cylinders.
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny771 View Post
23 degrees outside 55 humid. Car cold (overnight +) wur unplugged before test.

Valve closed 6.5 bar

Valve open 2.7 bar
Seems to me your cold control pressure is too high; without looking in my manual, I seem to think that 2.3 is the upper range of acceptability. At 2.7, you would not see adequate enrichment (remember, the higher the control pressure the less the fuel metering arm will move and the less fuel will be delivered). That could cause problems with your cold running conditions but have no impact once she's warmed up. If you know of someone that will lend you a known good WUR, then swap it out to at least put the WUR out of the equation.

Spend some time looking for vacuum leaks and/or intake air leaks. You might find something there. Unfortunately, these cars take a certain amount of trial and error before you find the culprit, since different system problems can cause similar symptoms.

Listening check: Your symptoms are hard cold starting, poor running until warmed up, and hard re-starting when warm, correct?
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Old 07-07-2011, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mark houghton View Post
Seems to me your cold control pressure is too high;
I agree; dug out my dead tree factory manual; the tech spec booklet I bought only covers the years I need.

930/66 seems to be 83-91, 930/68 is the US version - what motor type do you have?

Because each motor type has it's own page, presumably because it's different enough to need it.

The CCP graphs/pressures are different between the two types for 1989 - and both seem quite different (generally lower) than the earlier types like 930/60.

The US 930/68 motor type also has a funky "two bands" on the chart, annotated "with charging pressure" and "without charging pressure". No idea what that's about.

The 930/68 "without charging pressure" band gives a range for CCP of 2.1 - 2.5 bar at ~23 degrees C.

The 930/68 "with charging pressure" band gives a range for CCP of 1.7 - 2.1 bar at 23 degrees.

The 930/66 band gives a range for CCP of 1.4 - 1.9 bar @ 23 degrees.
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'77 S with '78 930 power and a few other things.

Last edited by spuggy; 07-07-2011 at 03:57 PM.. Reason: Oops. Had reversed the "without" and "with" charging pressure bands
Old 07-07-2011, 03:55 PM
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"""""Listening check: Your symptoms are hard cold starting, poor running until warmed up, and hard re-starting when warm, correct?""""


Yes, other than hard re-starting when luke warm. Hot is ok. Already changed accumulator.
I dont have someone with a WUR to try but i did win one on ebay but its for a 92 ( 0 438 140 164, he did say it was off a 89 but i dont think so ) it does look new.

Last edited by Benny771; 07-07-2011 at 04:03 PM..
Old 07-07-2011, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny771 View Post

Valve closed 6.5 bar?
Spec for a 930/68 is

test value: 6.7 - 7.4 bar
adjusting value: 6.9 - 7.1 bar


Spec for a 930/66 is

Test Value 6.0 - 6.7 bar
Adjusting Value: 6.2 - 6.2 bar


So whether it is in spec or not would depend very much on what motor type you have....
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:04 PM
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Can you tell me where i find this out? Motor type that is. Is it stamped somewhere? Or mixed in with the VIN.
If it helps at all, it is black......lol.
Old 07-07-2011, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Benny771 View Post
Can you tell me where i find this out? Motor type that is. Is it stamped somewhere? Or mixed in with the VIN.
If it helps at all, it is black......lol.
It's the second and third digits of the engine # stamped on the side of the fan housing support. (The first number, "6", is the number of cylinders. We know that )

If it keeps the same format as 1978-1981, then 7 as the second digit == Turbo, RoW/Japan and 8 == Turbo, US/California.

Third digit is probably just the last digit of the year; but they may have gone to using a letter instead (I know they did in the 80's for the chassis VIN)

Rest of the motor number is the sequential production # prefixed with 0001, unless it's a Turbo/California (1001 prefix, means 930/63) or Turbo/Japan (8001 prefix, 930/62 or 930/65 depending on year) motor type.

Pretty sure they got down to 930/66 for RoW and 930/68 for USA markets by the mid-80's.
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'77 S with '78 930 power and a few other things.

Last edited by spuggy; 07-07-2011 at 04:42 PM..
Old 07-07-2011, 04:33 PM
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This is what i have stamped on mine *68k01127*. Anyone tell what motor?

I went to this site and it looks like it is a type 68 Here is the link for the site (search window up top)

http://www.ppkat.com/html/engines.php?code=68k01127

XCan anyone confirm? Or no need to.


Ok, so if it is low,therefore rich at cold start,does that mean i need a new front or rear pump or wur/wur adjustment?

Last edited by Benny771; 07-07-2011 at 05:25 PM..
Old 07-07-2011, 05:06 PM
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Benny - is your car a Canadian car or US? If you're close to the GTA you can try my WUR.
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Old 07-08-2011, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndianDrives View Post
The green connector behind the air filter to run pumps to the test.
? I dont understand? What about it?
Old 08-05-2011, 04:03 AM
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