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5.7 GT1's Avatar
 
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Best Bang for the Buck?

Ok Guys,
I have been reading a lot of your posts and I'm considering upgrading my 1988 930 or 911 Turbo (as some of you identify with).

My last turbo experience was previously owning a 1986 930 with the following mods:
Patrick Motorsports installed 993 cams and did some mild head port work for the previous owner.
It also had B&B headers and Muffler (single outlet)
When I purchased the car I installed a Kokeln intercooler, Kokeln turbo and a electronic valve control.

The car did 340Hp to the wheels on a realistic chassis Dyno at about 1Bar.

I really liked the power output of that car, however I do not want to do that much this time around on the 88 930.

Ideally doing an EFI with all the cool stuff would be great, but that's not in the budget today.

So I was thinking doing the following:
Cat bypass
K27 7200 Turbo
Fabspeed or Andial intercooler
1 Bar spring
Maybe lock distributor with programmable MSD and boost retard unit.

With all listed above I am hoping to come within 80% of my old car that made 340 RWHP.

Now the big question; What do some of the experts on this forum think the best bang for the buck is considering what I have laid out above????
Old 07-06-2011, 02:27 PM
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You would have the same set-up as me. Im very happy. But, there are better turbo's out there for the same money (so i read). I have one of Brians mufflers and i love it.
I would think he would be happy to set you up with a full exhaust.
Old 07-07-2011, 06:22 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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80% of 340HP is 272HP. That's real easy. Strap on a K27-7200 and my muffler and you are done. Everything else can stay stock.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 07-07-2011, 09:15 PM
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Thanks for the feedback. I was told the stock 930 muffler with a cat bypass flows pretty well. How much would I really gain by changing the muffler?
Old 07-07-2011, 09:55 PM
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What type of WHP should be expected with a
K27 7200,
Fabspeed intercooler and a 1 bar spring?
Old 07-07-2011, 10:03 PM
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The cat bypass is 2.75" pipe and the muffler is chambered with many restrictions. Picture is below. My system is straight through 3". The difference is not tremendous in terms of HP; the greatest benefit is the combination of boost lag reduction, sound, and throttle response.
K27-7200, IC, and 1bar on a stock late USA engine will get you about 280WHP. I prefer to gain power in other ways than increasing boost. More boost = more engine stress. My engine puts out 350WHP with stock boost using large IC, my headers/muffler and SC cams.

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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 07-08-2011, 05:57 AM
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Thanks Brian, what an interesting cut away of the 930 muffler.
Old 07-08-2011, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
The cat bypass is 2.75" pipe and the muffler is chambered with many restrictions. Picture is below. My system is straight through 3". The difference is not tremendous in terms of HP; the greatest benefit is the combination of boost lag reduction, sound, and throttle response.
K27-7200, IC, and 1bar on a stock late USA engine will get you about 280WHP. I prefer to gain power in other ways than increasing boost. More boost = more engine stress. My engine puts out 350WHP with stock boost using large IC, my headers/muffler and SC cams.

Hi Brian,

A few questions. What is the stock WHP for a 1986 930? I thought that it was like 250WHP. Is that about right? What would your set up less the SC Cams get you do you think?
Eventually, I would want to do headers/exhaust, large IC, and the K-27S, I think, to lessen the turbo lag. I have the Ruf Variable Boost which caps out at .9 bar which I think is not too bad on engine stress for a street car.

I am still putting the pennies in the piggy bank but when do you think that you will have the headers with the heater boxes ready? They really are works of art from the pics I have seen.



To answer the original question, It appears that the best bang for the buck is headers and exhaust followed by the large IC. It also appears that you get the performance without stressing the engine which has to factor into the finances as well. Mine is in the shop for an injector that is leaking at the mounting bracket causing a lean condition. I am having them do the valves while the engine is out as well. I am keenly aware of the finance implications of a stressed engine this week! Ooooof!!
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1986 930 Ultra-Smith RUF Slant Nose conversion, RUF VB, K-27 HF-S, B&B Headers and Exhaust, RUF Short Shifter, RUF Interior

Last edited by 1986 930; 07-08-2011 at 05:37 PM..
Old 07-08-2011, 05:23 PM
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The 930/68 engine of the '86 put out ~240WHP. The baseline dynos done on the cars I have worked on confirm that figure.
The SC cams don't add significant HP but rather move the torque curve to the mid-range. They work well with the K27-7200 turbo I use as the benchmark. I would not expect peak HP to be significantly less with stock cams as it is the headers that push that number up. My headers alone added 50+WHP at 6500rpm.
The heater boxes are top priority. The beta's will be tested this summer (great timing for that, ha!) to be available for installation this fall. With any luck at all none of us will see another winter without heat. Winter is the absolute best driving for a 930 in Alabama and I cannot bear to miss another.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 07-08-2011, 05:56 PM
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FWLIW Mark...

My '87 w/ ~45k put down 245rwhp on a Mustang dyno @ sea level on a cool CT winter day (30-40*F), @ like 0.8bar with a gutted cat and OE exhaust.

I added Brian's dual-out exhaust and a Garretson IC @ ~50k and put down 286rwhp.... same temp, same dyno, @ 0.87bar.

I've since added a BLWUR and Powerhaus headers (and now running 0.89bar or so), and the seat of the pants (buttometer) is some decent gains have been found - Powerhause claims a 40rwhp gain, dunno about that but the gain is notable.

So the OE 3LDZ puts out a great hit despite it's antiquity status 8-)... a 7200's in my future tho heh heh.

I ain't complaining... 286rwhp is pretty strong for very mild mods / effort IMO 8-), and what I got now is certainly livable (famous last werdz)... tho losing >200lbs of Jenny Craig doesn't suck either heh heh.

Good luck!
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |

Last edited by krasuskyp; 07-08-2011 at 08:18 PM..
Old 07-08-2011, 08:13 PM
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