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Kirk911SC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Burlington, ON
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Hot start problem - '87 930

The car:

- 1987 930, 114,000 miles - (top end redone approx. 40,000 miles ago)
- SC cams
- Andial fuel enrichment
- Stock intercooler
- Garret T-04 60-1 hybrid turbo
- B&B exhaust
- Adjustable boost controller - set at 0.9 bar
- Stock CDI ignition


I recently replaced the cam seals and some other gaskets while I was in there.
Re-timed the cams, etc. Car was running without issue prior to this repair.

Since the repair I have had the classic hot start problem....shutdown for 5 minutes and no problem.....shutdown for more than 20 minutes or so and it won't start until it cools down.

I have replaced the accumulator and front fuel pump check valve this week (both were original as far as I can tell) and the problem persists. Injectors were removed and cleaned proefessionally last year. Fuel filter has less than 5,000 km on it. Both fuel pumps may be original. Thermotime switch is disconnected.

I checked the pressures this morning, and were as follows:

Temp: 85 F

System: 6.7 bar
Cold Control: 2.8 bar (this seems a bit high?)
Warm Control: 3.9
Rest: 2.5 bar - decreases to 1.8 at 10 minutes, 1.7 at 20 minutes

No starting issues previously. Runs fine otherwise. Problem is definitely related to heat soak.

Any ideas? What to check next?
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- '00 Dodge Viper GTS - Steel Grey - Yep...a domestic.
- '87 930 - Guards Red - Sold
- '82 911SC - Grand Prix White - Gone
- '78 928 - Silver - Long gone
- '04 Subaru WRX wagon - Sold

Last edited by Kirk911SC; 07-11-2011 at 08:30 AM..
Old 07-09-2011, 11:25 AM
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Not sure if the turbo is the same but I had the same issue on my SC and it was the cylinder head temp unit changed it and problem dissappeared
Old 07-09-2011, 11:36 AM
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Make sure the 2 fuel lines that go to the top of the accumulator are hooked up as per factory install. I think they will go on either way, but only one way is correct.
Old 07-09-2011, 11:57 AM
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I checked the lines.....the center fitting hose on the accumulator is attached to the fuel filter, which I believe is correct.
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- '00 Dodge Viper GTS - Steel Grey - Yep...a domestic.
- '87 930 - Guards Red - Sold
- '82 911SC - Grand Prix White - Gone
- '78 928 - Silver - Long gone
- '04 Subaru WRX wagon - Sold
Old 07-09-2011, 12:09 PM
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ignition

I had a few heat soak incidents, went with MSD, and never looked back. Philip
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:59 PM
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Philip,

Were your symptoms similar to mine? What indications did you have that the problem was ignition related. How would I test? Check for spark after engine has heat soaked?
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- '00 Dodge Viper GTS - Steel Grey - Yep...a domestic.
- '87 930 - Guards Red - Sold
- '82 911SC - Grand Prix White - Gone
- '78 928 - Silver - Long gone
- '04 Subaru WRX wagon - Sold
Old 07-11-2011, 04:35 AM
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If you haven't already done so, perform the Lee Rice fuel pump fuse mod as shown in the tech articles. Your problem sounds more like the acumulator, however, you might as well do things right while you are in there.

Good luck,
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Old 07-11-2011, 08:21 AM
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Accumulator is brand new. Residual pressure holds to specs.

Fuel pumps run and I bypassed the original fuel pump fuse holder long ago.
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- '00 Dodge Viper GTS - Steel Grey - Yep...a domestic.
- '87 930 - Guards Red - Sold
- '82 911SC - Grand Prix White - Gone
- '78 928 - Silver - Long gone
- '04 Subaru WRX wagon - Sold
Old 07-11-2011, 08:24 AM
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In that case, I will side with Phillip in that you should look into your CDI box. The easiest method would be to swap out with a known functioning unit. I will defer to the more electronically knowledgable members for testing methods of your box...
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Old 07-11-2011, 09:28 AM
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I have the factory manual with the testing specs for the CDI. I guess I can test prior to start up and then run the car and test again after the CDI box is heat soaked.

I'll check the coil (MSD Hi-vibration) while I'm at it.

I would think that I would have hot running problems if the CDI box was bad??
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- '00 Dodge Viper GTS - Steel Grey - Yep...a domestic.
- '87 930 - Guards Red - Sold
- '82 911SC - Grand Prix White - Gone
- '78 928 - Silver - Long gone
- '04 Subaru WRX wagon - Sold
Old 07-11-2011, 09:40 AM
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What goes wrong with OEM CDI units?

also check the ground stud behind the fuel filter to make sure that the CD box is getting a good ground...
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Old 07-11-2011, 10:18 AM
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I had the exact problem.....mine was 1 injector not sealing completely after shut down. So it yielded a slow leak, thus flooding out the engine.

Since the injectors are part of the fuel system past the acumulator, the check valves, the pumps and even the fuel distributer, the performance of these parts had no affect relating to my problem. Flooding out the engine is the main culprit here, or at least was on mine.

5 minutes off-no problem, 10 minutes off-longer than usual cranking time, 15 or more minutes off-would not start until completely cold. It is not the cool down that matters, it's the time it takes to evaporate the puddled fuel in the cylinder.

Again, this was my experiance...your situation may vary.

Simply remember, just because your injectors were cleaned a year ago, it's a moot point today!

Mark

Last edited by full quack; 07-11-2011 at 11:20 AM..
Old 07-11-2011, 11:12 AM
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Looks like I'll be testing the injectors.
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- '00 Dodge Viper GTS - Steel Grey - Yep...a domestic.
- '87 930 - Guards Red - Sold
- '82 911SC - Grand Prix White - Gone
- '78 928 - Silver - Long gone
- '04 Subaru WRX wagon - Sold
Old 07-11-2011, 03:05 PM
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I learned my lesson on cleaning injectors and don't do it anymore. After painstakenly cleaning and matching a set of old injectors and installing them in the car the same old problems came back within a week. It couldn't be the injectors so I tore everything apart to no avail. I pulled the injectors and tested them only to find 2 of 6 had failed again, were leaking and had bad spray patterns. I put brand new injectors in the car and it ran 100% better. They are expensive but worth every penny. I have several sets if you find this is your issue and would like to use the -009 Euro units.
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Old 07-11-2011, 08:20 PM
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What are the -009 Euro units? I'm assuming different flow rate or something like that?

$$?

I started to look at the injectors last night, and I stopped after testing one. It didn't leak with the system pressurized, but when the pumps were turned on a small of amount of fuel came out of the injector - almost like the initial surge of pressure was able to force it open briefly. No leakage after that. Who knows what it would do when it's heat soaked??

I stopped and didn''t check any more at that point - such a hassle to get at them. I was thinking it would be so much easier with one of those bench testers that are shown in the manuals, but good luck finding one!

Took the car out for an "Italian tune-up" with some injector cleaner in the tank. Car ran great, and idled well. Left the CIS guages hooked up, and the pressures were right in spec when I was able to check. Waited 30-40 minutes and tried to start the car......it started after just a bit of coaxing.
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- '00 Dodge Viper GTS - Steel Grey - Yep...a domestic.
- '87 930 - Guards Red - Sold
- '82 911SC - Grand Prix White - Gone
- '78 928 - Silver - Long gone
- '04 Subaru WRX wagon - Sold
Old 07-12-2011, 01:56 AM
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Yes -009 are the Euro injectors, only ones I use.
The injectors are a total pain to get to and you have to be careful not to overtighten the lines or they will leak.
Good idea on the injector cleaner and Itialian tune-up. These cars need driven and driven hard on occasion to keep everything cleaned out.
Hope this works for you as changing out the injectors is a lot of work and $$$.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:12 AM
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So I drove the car to the office today.....nice fast run about 45 km distance.

Car sat all day and fired immediately when I went to start it and the end of the day. One very small backfire out the exhaust as it started. Very small, but never done that before. Pooled gas?

Drove home and let it sit outside in the sun when I got home. Temps are over 30C (90F) here today. Engine thoroughly heat soaked. Car sat for approx. 1 hour. Went out to test start it (figured I'd have a problem) and it started immediately.

Not sure what to do now?? I think I'll leave it as is and see if the problem returns.

Maybe try different intervals? 5 minutes, then 10, then 20, etc.
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- '00 Dodge Viper GTS - Steel Grey - Yep...a domestic.
- '87 930 - Guards Red - Sold
- '82 911SC - Grand Prix White - Gone
- '78 928 - Silver - Long gone
- '04 Subaru WRX wagon - Sold
Old 07-12-2011, 03:25 PM
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