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Gremlins and weird mother mo-jo

Anyone ever own an AMC Gremlin? Me neither, thank God, and I wouldn't admit it if I had. But, I definitely have some gremlin that hitched a ride from the mother country back in '87 that's casting some weird mo-jo spell on my 930.

Awhile back I posted a topic about my AFR's going super rich, but only above about 3000 rpms and only after the car has sat off while up to temp for 10 minutes or so.

Also recently, I posted about my battery doing the stink-bomb thing...but only after the car has been shut down hot and allowed to sit for 10 minutes or so, the stinkage beginning upon startup. I hooked up a voltmeter the other day to monitor what's going on. Charging is fine (well a bit high, about 14.5 v all the time) until she sits hot for the afformentioned 10 minutes. On startup I get about 16.5 volts charging, rising up to almost 18 at 3000 rpms. And guess what - my AFR's take a nose dive at the same time. Hmmmmmmmm.....a causative link I suspect? My guess is that I am not having issues with fuel pressure control, but rather my LC1 wide band is doing the funky chicken with 18 volts being fed to it and giving faulty readings. Something for y'all to chew on.

Finally, having never been into the alternator before, I can't believe that the regulator components can't be repaired/rebuilt/replaced, vs. doing the entire alternator. Gotta be a diode gone toast on me when she gets heat soaked. Any experience with a do-it-yourself component rebuild?
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Old 07-20-2011, 04:58 PM
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i may be the least experienced guy on the board but i just replaced/rebuilt the alternator last winter. I pulled the alternator and took it to a local shop here in phoenix, his shop is actually next to my business. i had him test it and he said the brushes etc. etc. and rebuilt it. he said the voltage regulator was fine. I reinstalled it and I was having the same voltage issues and a bouncing RPM gauge. I figured i had messed up something so i pulled it and reinstalled it, still no luck. I had ordered the Voltage regulator from pelican at the beginning and went ahead and re-installed it. works perfect now. told my alternator guy and he just shook his head. on the bench it worked perfect but something in the car made it not work. new regulator solved the problem.
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Old 07-20-2011, 05:48 PM
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Very preceptive deducing Watson !!! I would guess your spot on. Now us poor guys who can only afford the old cars sill have the black box regulator on the drivers side tub rail. On the shiny , excellently colored, new stuff you should have the integral voltage regulator and that can be purchased separately. Easy fix, you'll enjoy the experience.

Cole
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:09 PM
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The regulator itself can be replaced easily DIY (part is available from Pelican) but this won't necessarily fix your problem. BTDT. There are some other not so DIY electrical bits that are integral to the alt that may fail.

Most certainly your indicated AFR wierdness was merely a symptom of your charging system in the death spiral.
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Old 07-21-2011, 09:44 AM
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I am curious Mark I don't remember what wide range you have. But i did some research before I install my EFI and most time with a 911 the fix to wild A/F ratios with no other explaination was tied to the electrical system and the fix was putting a filter capacitor on the incoming power feed to the wide band controller so I put one in just so I wouldn't have to later. Hope this helps. Ok I looked at your sig and you have an Innovate same as me and everyone else that had the problem.
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Old 07-21-2011, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark houghton View Post
Anyone ever own an AMC Gremlin? Me neither, thank God, and I wouldn't admit it if I had. But, I definitely have some gremlin that hitched a ride from the mother country back in '87 that's casting some weird mo-jo spell on my 930.
Me either, I definitely have a gremlin into my car ....


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Old 07-21-2011, 12:45 PM
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Sounds like a very plausible theory. To rule it in/out, do you have an extra battery laying around that you can wire up the LC-1 to and see if isolating it from the car's electrical makes that part of your problem go away?
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Old 07-21-2011, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeMvr View Post
Sounds like a very plausible theory. To rule it in/out, do you have an extra battery laying around that you can wire up the LC-1 to and see if isolating it from the car's electrical makes that part of your problem go away?
That's an idea worthy of exploring. I just happen to have a 12V computer UPS battery fully charged.
But the weird thing is that AFR activity is fine, just as predicted, only until I shut the car down and things "heat soak". Upon re-starting is when the AFR's go rich beyond 3000 rpm's with no-load to speak of..just gentle throttle running the rpm's up. Things are cool at about 14.0 AFR, then @ 3000 they drop to the mid-12's.

Slapping an external power source (battery) on would take the alternator charging gremlin out of the equation. Process of elimination, as most everything is with these cars.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsmith660 View Post
... putting a filter capacitor on the incoming power feed to the wide band controller
Hmmm, can't hurt even with a properly working charging circuit. My Innovate has been fine up until now, and I can't help but think it's related to too much voltage from the alternator overtaxing the voltage regulating circuits in the Innovate. Probably not doing the zenner diodes any good in there.

I've found that the solution is to never shut the car down so things don't heat soak. Just keep driving into the sunset - or sunrise - or harvest moon - whatever.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:34 PM
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Interesting... my LC-1 ALWAYS gave me power issues and error readings. I'm replacing the voltage regulator while putting the motor back together but maybe I should also do the filter as well.
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Old 07-21-2011, 04:25 PM
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Try innovate tech support.. they're helpful.
Old 07-21-2011, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
Try innovate tech support.. they're helpful.
They have tech support?
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Old 07-21-2011, 08:57 PM
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Contact Innovate! Technology, Inc :: For Wideband Air/Fuel Ratio Tuning Solutions
Old 07-22-2011, 07:34 AM
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Their devices are good but their support is BS !

Personnaly , I 've got some issues with my first AUX3 ... they never replied and never provided any assistance !
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Old 07-22-2011, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Thierry25 View Post
Their devices are good but their support is BS !

Personnaly , I 've got some issues with my first AUX3 ... they never replied and never provided any assistance !
I've never emailed them and waited for an email reply... Being in the states I just call them and Philipe or Adam has always answered and been a big help or at least made the effort, for me.
Old 07-22-2011, 10:00 AM
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Support from Innovate was real good when I set up my LC-1 they looked at pics and recommended a good place to put the sensor and sent me a 1 bung instead of the standard one in the kit and promptely answered any questions I had during the install.
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76 Blazer also restored by me
Old 07-22-2011, 02:03 PM
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2 apologies:

1. For hijacking Mark's thread

2. I have two Innovate products and they are great. I have never talked to their support. I've seen many posts complaining about it and I took JF's comment to call them as being sarcastic. Since it's Friday and I'm sick of this week I chose to be sarcastic too.

Time for a Corona or three...
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10 997.2 Cab - Speed Yellow
83 SC Cab - Guards Red [SOLD]
17 NSX - Nouvelle Blue
Old 07-22-2011, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeMvr View Post
2 apologies:

1. For hijacking Mark's thread

2. I have two Innovate products and they are great. I have never talked to their support. I've seen many posts complaining about it and I took JF's comment to call them as being sarcastic. Since it's Friday and I'm sick of this week I chose to be sarcastic too.

Time for a Corona or three...
Hey, no problem. I can hijack threads with the best of the best.
I hear people slamming Innovate all the time, but my experience so far is entirely positive. My problem is something completely isolated from Innovate's products....well, maybe. I'll post a follow-up once I get around to dealing with the issue I posted. I betcha my weird AFR's go away with proper charge voltage regulation.
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Old 07-24-2011, 12:42 PM
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