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Wrong Fuel Injectors in My Car???

So I decided to perform the injector flow test. I started by taking the injectors and took them to an injector cleaning place.

I received my cleaned injectors and out of curiosity decided to check the part number and look it up on the internet. I have injectors BOSCH Part # 0437502009 which is equivalent to a 1976-1983 injector part number 930-110-225-02-M14. These injectors have received two updates since (my car is a 1994 turbo 3.6). Turbos from 1989-1992 should have 93111022520 and the Turbos with the M64 engine 1993-1994 should have 96411023520.

Is there a real difference between these injectors? I have never heard of a high HP CIS build having to swap the injectors and my car does run strong. Still, really bothers me that I don't have the right part number but maybe I am worrying too much.
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Old 07-27-2011, 12:35 PM
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Just found this out.....what a bummer I am so frustrated:

Quote:
injecteur 3.3 turbo : bosch 0437 502 017 Porsche 931 110 225 00
Flowed qty per 30 sec : 270 ml

injecteur 3.6 turbo : Bosch 0437 502 057 / Porsche 964 110 235 20
Flowed qty per 30 sec : 285 ml ( at least)
by Thierry

This means I would have to spend $600+ to get the correct injectors to flow more fuel. And my injectors are even older than the above, so they are probably in the 250ml per 30sec range.

Makes me wana leave the 3.6 parked and dump money on my 135 instead, $600 alone gets me JB4 which is an extra 100hp.
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Last edited by IMONBOOST; 07-27-2011 at 12:44 PM..
Old 07-27-2011, 12:36 PM
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The injector thing kept me thinking so I stopped procrastinating and did the flow test immediately after work. The results are pretty good.

The test consisted of:
1. Connecting a Battery Charger
2. Setting injectors in equal bottles
3. Remove Fuel Pump relay
4. Short the fuel pump
5. Open meter plate to the max (WOT) for 30 seconds
7. Remove fuel pump short

And the results:



Here is the setup:



5 were at pretty much the same, 170ml to 173ml.

One was at 163ml, but I have a theory on this one which I will have to prove tomorrow by sealing the bottles. This particular bottle got very cold and it was the only bottle that had to be with a high degree of inclination due to space limitations. I am pretty sure that due to the angle, the fuel was allowed to leave as particles on the air due to the atomizing.

I saw that Thierry had his bottles sealed, this may be one of the reasons.
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-Ayrton Senna-
Old 07-27-2011, 05:31 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Your -009 injectors are fine. The -017 injectors are USA smog motor injectors which do not flow as much as the early -009 Euro injectors. I have not tried the -057 C2T injectors but it looks like they will not out-perform the early -009 units.

Good to know your flows are equal.
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMONBOOST View Post
The injector thing kept me thinking so I stopped procrastinating and did the flow test immediately after work. The results are pretty good.

The test consisted of:
1. Connecting a Battery Charger
2. Setting injectors in equal bottles
3. Remove Fuel Pump relay
4. Short the fuel pump
5. Open meter plate to the max (WOT) for 30 seconds
7. Remove fuel pump short

And the results:

... were at pretty much the same, 170ml to 173ml.

One was at 163ml, but I have a theory on this one which I will have to prove tomorrow by sealing the bottles. This particular bottle got very cold and it was the only bottle that had to be with a high degree of inclination due to space limitations. I am pretty sure that due to the angle, the fuel was allowed to leave as particles on the air due to the atomizing.

I saw that Thierry had his bottles sealed, this may be one of the reasons.

Great job ! This is the best way to make sure you have correct fuelling !

I am just pretty surprised by the value itself .... you said 170 ml / 30 sec ! ?

This is pretty low ... Did you convert weight to ml ?
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Old 07-28-2011, 09:36 AM
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hey their , the 009 injectors are the best flowing CIS injectors you can get, I have them in my 89 motor , I also believe that the shop manual calls for 160cc to 240cc per min, 1cc =1ml so 170 ml in 30 sec is great, if I'm wrong,will some one please let me know.But I have the Porsche 911 turbo Technical spec book in front of me and that what it says.
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Last edited by heliolps2; 07-28-2011 at 04:26 PM..
Old 07-28-2011, 04:11 PM
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Thanks all, the ml were measured by moving the contents of the bottle into a measuring cup. I was concerned at first, but based on the results from other members, I think 170 ml on 30 seconds is actually the highest I have seen so far. The 260ml number I have only seen from Thierry as I quoted above, maybe he can chime in where/how he got those numbers. I have a crappy video of the process, when I figure out how to load it, I will post it.
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Old 07-28-2011, 06:32 PM
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Imon

I just found my original records, I was really wrong !!!

Actually, in order to get more accurate value, I did my test under 60 sec and not 30 sec ! For this test I used a precision balance to measure the weight of each bottle . ( weight of the bottle is deducted from the value)

So what I got at that time was :

injector C2 3.3 turbo : bosch 0437 502 017 Porsche 931 110 225 00
Flowed qty per 60 sec : 270 gr

injector C2 3.6 turbo : Bosch 0437 502 057 / Porsche 964 110 235 20
Flowed qty per 60 sec : 285 gr ( at least)
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Old 07-29-2011, 04:44 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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The specific gravity of gasoline @ 60░F is 0.739 so your flow would be:
-017 injectors @ 270g = 365.4 ml/min
-057 injectors @ 285g = 385.6 ml/min
About a 5.5% increas in fow for the -057 over the -017 if standard deviation is very low.
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Old 07-29-2011, 10:53 AM
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Slightly OT, but I had to go larger injectors for my 3.4EFI....was pointed towards this place...my new injectors are 60lb 630cfm and they're matched flow tested...$59 each... Marren Fuel Injection - We Service All Your Fuel Injection Needs
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Old 07-29-2011, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
The specific gravity of gasoline @ 60░F is 0.739 so your flow would be:
-017 injectors @ 270g = 365.4 ml/min
-057 injectors @ 285g = 385.6 ml/min
About a 5.5% increas in fow for the -057 over the -017 if standard deviation is very low.
Yes correct !

It seems our fuel ( 98) has a specific gravity @ 0.755 .... so it gives a little less ml in my case.

Something, while I performed the test , I also compared my old 017 to the brand new 017 I bought....it was terrific ! If I remember correctly, the old injectors flowed about 5-8 grs less (average) compare to brand new. Old one has important deviation ( about 10%) between each and "pissing" flow patterns.
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Old 07-29-2011, 11:54 AM
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I have seen the same results with old injectors. I have cleaned dozens of them and had the injection shop I use clean a few dozen. The results were the same, half were thrown out as off spec and the other half failed within one year of use. I no longer clean injectors but only test them. Pass/fail, no in-between. The difference in how the engines perform with new injectors is very noticeable. Crisp start and stop and improved fuel mileage.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 07-29-2011, 01:00 PM
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Brian,
Is there any alternative to spending $720 (plus tax) in order to get a set of new injectors for our cars?

Thanks,
Mark
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Old 07-29-2011, 02:48 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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That's the bad part, they are horribly expensive. On the flip side they probably last 10 years. I'd venture to say there are a lot of 930's running around with 20+ year old injectors that don't work optimally. I only use the -009 Euro units as you may as well get the biggest if spending the money. I've got a set with a few hundred miles on that I pulled from a car that went EFI which might be a viable alternative for you. Shoot me an email and I'll dig 'em out.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8

Last edited by RarlyL8; 07-29-2011 at 06:51 PM..
Old 07-29-2011, 06:48 PM
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So far I have no fueling problem on my T3.6 with the 009s. When I am done with the fuel enrichment, which hopefully will we during this week, I will let you guys know.
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-Ayrton Senna-
Old 07-30-2011, 01:54 PM
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