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Drive it like u stole it.
 
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drmatera,

This is what I have done so far to improve longevity in my motor. All machine work done by Ollies. Target HP 500-550HP with reliability in mind.

Case work:
Shuffle Pinned
Boat Tailed
Relieved for larger oil pump (my motor was a 76 Turbo so small oil pump).
Enlarged piston squirters

Crank:
Micro Polished
knife edged

Heads: (keep in mind these were done almost 7 years ago so options have changed)
Twin Plugged
Port Matched to Carrera EFI intake
Race Springs and retainers

New Porsche Motorsports piston & cylinder set (Displacement increased to 3.2L with 7.1 CR)
Carrillo H Beam Rods
Raceware Head Studs
New (Not Weld Up regrinds) Cams from Webcam - GT2 EVO Twin Turbo grind
MODE Twin turbo Intercooler (Its just massive)
Twin K16's (this is my weak point and they may be replaced soon after she gets running)
RarleyL8 Twin Turbo Headers with twin zorks.

I have lots of other mods and trick stuff but wanted to keep to the subject at hand. I think we are on the same page as to what we want in a motor.

Some pictures from the build can be found in this link.

Bill
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Bill Jones
Jupiter, FL
77 Euro 911 3.0 Wide Body - under construction
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rennsport/collections/72157618856489537/

Last edited by jonesb930; 08-09-2011 at 10:53 AM..
Old 08-09-2011, 10:41 AM
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Nice work!!!

What kind of engine management setup r u planning??

Walt
Old 08-09-2011, 12:10 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Quote:
Let's talk about head porting, P&C's, rods and camshafts
The Engine Building Forum has all the info you need and then some. Lots of experienced wrench turners over there as well.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 08-09-2011, 01:09 PM
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Drive it like u stole it.
 
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My build was full of " while your in there" upgrades. The initial goal was to build it close to stock but have a bottom end that could take any upgrade I had in it's future. From my list you can see the HP bug bit me.

Wjfk32 - full optioned Motec M600
Old 08-09-2011, 01:12 PM
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Heads: Biggest valves you can comfortably fit on factory seat. I think 51/43 works. Open valve seats ID to 87-88% of intake valve size. Use a nice radius or multi angle seat cutter and backcut the valves based on cutter you are using. 43mm intake and 41mm exhaust ports should do very well.

Cams: GT2evo or Dougherty DC43 depending on the rpm range you want to operate in, confirm with John Dougherty as he may suggest something in the middle(custom grind).

Rods: Carrillo, R&R or Pauter, whichever you can get a better deal on.
Old 08-09-2011, 07:49 PM
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Building a motor for the kind of power you are seeking can be very expensive and humbling. Good luck to you and Godspeed.
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Old 08-09-2011, 08:52 PM
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Talking about valves, you could also look into the thin stem valves that RS Tuning campaigned with in the 993 GT2 Evo's, they help with cylinder filling, and have less friction.
A high end guide material is also a must, especially for the exhaust side, this has always been a weak point on our air cooled engines.

And depending on RPM limit you may want to look at using motorsport rockers, they're about $550 each though. Knife edging and lightening the crank isn't important, obviously balancing the whole rotating assembly is.

Carrillo's are a tried and tested rod, i know that is what RS use on most of their builds so they are well proven. Windage and correct shuffle pinning of the case is also a must at those levels, the whole crankcase breathes and will shift....
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87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
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Old 08-10-2011, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmatera View Post
I'm not sure how buying and modding another car will help my goal of having a 700hp 930. If you guys could explain that i'm all ears.
I believe you asked for input and opinions and stated money IS an option.

Buying a 996tt and upgrading it to 700HP would probably be cheaper and way more reliable than the money required to make a 930 with ~700hp reliable (if it is possible to make it reliable and last).

If money ISN'T a problem then by all means pour it into a 3.3 930 engine and hope it stays together when you boost it into oblivion.

Just my $0.02
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Old 08-10-2011, 05:15 AM
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So far I have a set of Carrillo rods and a GT3 oil pump in my parts bin. I plan on having Extreme Cylinder Heads twin plugging the heads, porting them and basically freshening the heads in general. Valves and guides will be addressed. Not sure I'll bite on $550 each rockers as I plan on keeping the max RPM under 7000. As for cams I have been looking at the GT2 Evo's but if i'm going to spend the money I want cams best suited for my set up so I'll most likely contact Webcam when that time comes.

JonesB930 - You are correct, I'm looking for a solid 550hp reliably as I don't often plan on tapping into the limits of my build. I picked "700hp" as a high estimate to make sure the parts and procedures I use on this build will handle that power.

Helmsy - While i appreciate your concern for my wallets well being I don't want a 996 with 700hp. If I did want one of them I would have it. If you decided tomorrow you wanted your wife to have huge tits would you divorce her and marry a stripper? hmmm, well maybe thats a bad example
Old 08-10-2011, 06:25 AM
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Turbonut has a motor pushing700 hp he is using a ms-3 set up. the case was shuffle pinned, he's using VW turbo coil on plugs twin plugged. GT-2 cams, I think he said 1 bar boost on pump gas. but the boost might have been higher. I spent quite a long time on the phone with him and learned a lot. So when i do my EFI conversion i'll be following his map. I already have my spare set of heads ported but still need them twin plugged. He also did most of the work and didnt spend huge amounts of cash doing it. I think it was also 3.4 7.5 to one compression.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmatera View Post
I want something alittle different (read: better, faster, stronger, cooler) than the average build.
So far what we are seeing in this thread is really the tried and true path to big HP. There's nothing really new or radically different, just small variations on the well worn course. I think if you want to go beyond the average, you need to look at water-air intercooling (a la 934):



Or water-cooled cylinder heads (a la 962...bring lots of time, money, custom fabrication skills or a combination of all)

Cool thread link with photos...you can see the "heart of a 962" engine is the same as ours:
Rebuilding a 962 motor

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Old 08-10-2011, 10:04 AM
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That looks like a JLP racing 935 at 2 o-clock in the background.
John Paul junior is an old friend. Good guy and incredible driver.

I havn't seen him in years now.

yeah i know, off topic.. BFD & whatever
Old 08-10-2011, 10:36 AM
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yeah i know, off topic.. BFD & whatever
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:40 AM
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Ok, After a little chat with my engine guy I think we're going with a GT3 crank and GT2 Evo cams. We'll just need to get a set pistons to fit my Carillo rods

Last edited by drmatera; 08-10-2011 at 02:08 PM..
Old 08-10-2011, 01:50 PM
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Seeing that you mentioned you already have a set of Carrillo rods, keep in mind that the GT3 crank has 3.0 sized rod journals.
Old 08-10-2011, 03:13 PM
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I can put you in touch with a guy who will make you special cylinders and heads, they're a new design, the cylinders screw into the heads giving complete head sealing.
To get the numbers you are looking for, under 7K-RPM, it's going to need proper head sealing to deal with the monster boost and stay together in the long term, and serious inter-cooling to make sure you hang onto it all.... Same company can build you a 'Secan' quality intercooler too...
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87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
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Old 08-10-2011, 03:47 PM
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Is that Capricorn ?
Quote:
I can put you in touch with a guy who will make you special cylinders and heads, they're a new design, the cylinders screw into the heads giving complete head sealing.

To get the numbers you are looking for, under 7K-RPM, it's going to need proper head sealing to deal with the monster boost and stay together in the long term, and serious inter-cooling to make sure you hang onto it all.... Same company can build you a 'Secan' quality intercooler too...
Old 08-10-2011, 04:54 PM
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Capricorn are the manufacturer, although the design is proprietary to CTR i believe. They are only fitted to one car at the moment, but that has been run safely at 2bar on the Judd engine dyno. Stripped and checked, then back on the dyno, stripped and checked again etc etc...... Installed in the car, run up above 210mph and it's all good. They won't be cheap obviously, but they will put up with the abuse!
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Jonathan.
87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan
Old 08-11-2011, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollies930 View Post
Seeing that you mentioned you already have a set of Carrillo rods, keep in mind that the GT3 crank has 3.0 sized rod journals.
HMM, I was under the impression the journal size was the same as my current crankshaft. I'll check into that.

JBL930 - That sounds trick but a couple of friends of mine over here have run 30+psi on their street turbo motors ( one is a 3.2 with stock 3.3 turbo P&C's). His engine ran fine for over 7 years and only after a mishap did it crack a cylinder. That car has made numerous 1/4 mile runs at 140mph and has been down the 1 mile coarse at 194mph. While solid parts are a must I do believe octane and a proper tune are paramount as a stock piston will handle a clean 700hp but the best piston in the world will fail under detonation at 500hp

Last edited by drmatera; 08-11-2011 at 08:18 AM..
Old 08-11-2011, 08:04 AM
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As you say, it's all different with racing fuel, the car above is running normal 98 RON fuel, not sure what that equates to in the states, maybe 93? I know it's measured differently over there, isn't it MON or something?
We don't get any E85 here, what equivalent is that in RON?

As GFJ said in another thread, if you manage to keep your chamber temps in check (i wasn't sure what he was eluding to at the time, but it's obviously combustion chamber), then it should be fine, and that's all possible with twin plug, racing fuel, a quality intercooler, and plenty of oil cooling....
I know Eddie and Juan run big boost, and they've both posted some seriously quick times, it's clearly doable...... I guess us Europeans try and over engineer stuff, or we're just pussies

The 935 ran 2.7 bar!! But you had the heads welded on, lots of water in there to help, as well as the flat fan, and then you simply threw the whole top end in the scrap bin after 30hrs.....




The cams are going to be a major decision, balancing drivability over getting as much air in and out as possible.... Looking forward to seeing it all come together!
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87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan
Old 08-11-2011, 09:54 AM
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