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-   -   Building a strong 3.3 Turbo motor (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/623718-building-strong-3-3-turbo-motor.html)

drmatera 08-08-2011 08:00 PM

Building a strong 3.3 Turbo motor
 
Ok guys, this is a topic I see for the N/A guys but not us turbo freaks. Let me start by saying money IS an object but I'm willing to spend where it counts.

My goal is a powerful ( 700hp) street car. This car may see a very small amount of racing, but nothing more than a chance to make a few laps for fun. I already have EFI, a turbo sized for the job and an intercooler to match. I'm looking for tips on building strength, power and streetability.

Let's talk about head porting, P&C's, rods and camshafts

fletcher0780 08-08-2011 09:06 PM

Subscribed, I like where this is going an plan to follow after I've had time to shake down my EFI.

Reaper930 08-08-2011 09:59 PM

why not go for a bigger discp. P&C setup? would be much easier to get to those power levels

911TT33 08-09-2011 12:45 AM

To start, you need fully finned P&C's, aftermarket rod/head fasteners, bigger piston squirters, higher flow/scavenge oil pump, titanium retainers, racing valve springs, aftermarket CAMs, and possibly flamed ringed liners/heads if you want to run big boost safely. For optimum street ability, consider a nice pair or ball bearing turbo's instead of one big turbo ;)

JBL930 08-09-2011 03:15 AM

You're going to struggle to get 700hp out of a single turbo car for the street and keep it pleasant to drive, it'll have to have a big laggy turbo, or be running really high boost, lumpy race cams etc.... And reliability will suffer.

What is all that power for? High speed runs, 1/4 mile runs, standing mile stuff? It will all make a difference to what you do, a 'reliable' 700hp engine is a different animal to a traffic light (10 second chassis dyno) tyre shredder. If it has to deal with sustained 700hp then you'll need a serious intercooler, lots of work on the case, shuffle pinning etc..... And if it's long high speed runs you are doing then even gearbox cooling would be a good idea.
What RPM range is the engine going to be built for?

wjfk32 08-09-2011 04:21 AM

If it was me---TALK TO TURBO KRAFT- period.
I would get to confused as to put this in, no do it this way and that way...YOU WILL GO NUTS.

Stick to a proven gameplan.

Walt

CaptainCalf 08-09-2011 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBL930 (Post 6185502)
You're going to struggle to get 700hp out of a single turbo car for the street and keep it pleasant to drive, it'll have to have a big laggy turbo, or be running really high boost, lumpy race cams etc.... And reliability will suffer.

What is all that power for? High speed runs, 1/4 mile runs, standing mile stuff? It will all make a difference to what you do, a 'reliable' 700hp engine is a different animal to a traffic light (10 second chassis dyno) tyre shredder. If it has to deal with sustained 700hp then you'll need a serious intercooler, lots of work on the case, shuffle pinning etc..... And if it's long high speed runs you are doing then even gearbox cooling would be a good idea.
What RPM range is the engine going to be built for?

+1 twin turbos, cams w/ valve springs to match, rods, larger jugs & slugs, bigger oil pump, second oil cooler, flame ringed twin plugged heads, godzilla intercooler, custom headers, tranny reworked and forget about it if ur on a budget...did I miss anything?SmileWavy

jwasbury 08-09-2011 05:54 AM

Maybe not 3.3 specific, but there are lots of threads about building high HP 930s some recent, some not so recent:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/367717-how-much-power-do-you-have-how-did-you-get-there.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/418882-big-hp-930-chassis-roll-call-all-motor-types-993tts-964tts.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/537664-2010-efi-hot-rod-odyssey.html

drmatera 08-09-2011 08:34 AM

Reaper - more displacement is a good option. I'm most likely going to need P&C's so why not step up. I see Turbo Kraft seems to really like the Nickies so that may be the guys I call for that.

911TT33 - I hear lots of people mention the need for fully finned barrells but for a street motor seeing boost for only seconds at a time I don't think it's a requirement. Juan's motor had stock 930 P&C's making well over 700hp and took more abuse than I and my wallet would ever attempt to put it through.

JBL930 - I beg to differ as the advancements in turbo technology make huge strides forward the lumbering monster single is no longer the only choice. My S262 with billet wheel spools great on my stock 3.3 and will only get better with a fresher, larger and more powerful engine. This turbo will support around 700hp which is the high point of my power quest. Since I plan on very little "road racing", a ton of street driving and a decent amount of drag racing my intercooler and gear box will be just fine.

wjk32 - I am with you on picking one source for a build. Picking and choosing bits from different schools of thought can be a bad thing or a good thing depending on how you apply the information. I'm not looking for the most commonly used engine package, I want something alittle different (read: better, faster, stronger, cooler) than the average build.

I plan on running cams, but not 964 or SC. I'm going to spend the money where the power is, cams and cylinder heads.

wjfk32 08-09-2011 09:14 AM

My mechanic is selling his sweet 996tt. :) It will save you alot of headaches and $$$$.

Walt

JBL930 08-09-2011 09:25 AM

Sounds like you already have a handle on what you need for how you are going to use it. What kind of boost will you be running for that power? And how high will the engine be revving?
Is the 700hp goal going to be a race fuel tune?

Looking forward to seeing it come together! I struggle to keep mine pointing in the right direction with only 520ps, and it pulls 'hard' up to 170, must be mental with another 200 :)

Had a run in a mates 740hp 997GT2 the other day at the airfield, bonkers power, and even with all of the special suspension, extra weight, aero and quality rubber it was scrabbling up the runway...... Nutty machine!! :D

wjfk32 08-09-2011 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBL930 (Post 6186096)
Sounds like you already have a handle on what you need for how you are going to use it. What kind of boost will you be running for that power? And how high will the engine be revving?
Is the 700hp goal going to be a race fuel tune?

Looking forward to seeing it come together! I struggle to keep mine pointing in the right direction with only 520ps, and it pulls 'hard' up to 170, must be mental with another 200 :)

Had a run in a mates 740hp 997GT2 the other day at the airfield, bonkers power, and even with all of the special suspension, extra weight, aero and quality rubber it was scrabbling up the runway...... Nutty machine!! :D

What kind of turbo's does hit got running in there???:) Tials, VGT'S

Walt

CaptainCalf 08-09-2011 09:36 AM

700hp
 
This is a little off subject, but another option would be to keep your 930 as is an get yourself a 996tt. There are plenty out there that can be bought for $30K and then you could bolt on the 700hp w/o cracking the case or doing head work...http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1312911342.jpg
This is an EVOMS kit. I haven't tried one, but they look nice don't they?

drmatera 08-09-2011 09:38 AM

WJK32- Please keep your replies relevant to the post.

JBL930 - I'm not a stranger to turbo power. The amount of boost i'm going to run will be determined by how much I need to run to reach 700hp. Mind you I don't plan on running around at that power level, I'm shooting for around 550hp in the 20psi range for daily operation and since i'm running E85 I will ALWAYS be on my race gas tune ;) . For 700hp I'm expecting to need about 28-30psi of boost but that power will be reserved for the track.


I have boost control in my ECU that can be tuned for rpm and throttle position. It should give me some control as I can pour the power on as the rpms' rise and vehicle speed matches the tire speed.

drmatera 08-09-2011 09:39 AM

I'm not sure how buying and modding another car will help my goal of having a 700hp 930. If you guys could explain that i'm all ears.

JBL930 08-09-2011 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wjfk32 (Post 6186101)
What kind of turbo's does hit got running in there???:) Tials, VGT'S

Walt



The biggest VTG's that RS Tuning could get their hands on, and it's running huge mega bucks intercoolers, and it's 3.9ltr..... It's a serious piece of kit to be fair, and RS had it for 11 months to get it right :O

One of the problems with VTG's is they run HOT, you get loads of low down grunt, but heat is the price you pay..... good job he also has water in there to help

JBL930 08-09-2011 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmatera (Post 6186121)

JBL930 - I'm not a stranger to turbo power.


I never said you were SmileWavy

wjfk32 08-09-2011 10:26 AM

My mechanics' silver 996tt-(carbon fiber-interior-porsche) has simple bolt on 24/18's,injectors,stock exhaust-modified,new coils,newplugs,EPL-tUNE,Clutchmasters, making 530whp....Selling in the 40's.(beautiful car-runs amazing)..He is buying a turbo 997-modified..

Playing devils advocate-Why knock yourself out with a 930-again..And drive yourself nuts and risk.

Walt

wjfk32 08-09-2011 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBL930 (Post 6186127)
The biggest VTG's that RS Tuning could get their hands on, and it's running huge mega bucks intercoolers, and it's 3.9ltr..... It's a serious piece of kit to be fair, and RS had it for 11 months to get it right :O

One of the problems with VTG's is they run HOT, you get loads of low down grunt, but heat is the price you pay..... good job he also has water in there to help

Just thinking how I would react in the drivers seat!!!!:eek:http://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/chix.gif

Walt

wjfk32 08-09-2011 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmatera (Post 6186121)
WJK32- Please keep your replies relevant to the post.

JBL930 - I'm not a stranger to turbo power. The amount of boost i'm going to run will be determined by how much I need to run to reach 700hp. Mind you I don't plan on running around at that power level, I'm shooting for around 550hp in the 20psi range for daily operation and since i'm running E85 I will ALWAYS be on my race gas tune ;) . For 700hp I'm expecting to need about 28-30psi of boost but that power will be reserved for the track.


I have boost control in my ECU that can be tuned for rpm and throttle position. It should give me some control as I can pour the power on as the rpms' rise and vehicle speed matches the tire speed.

Sorry--Just thinking out loud....SmileWavy


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