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wjfk32's Avatar
 
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Your conclusions was correct from the last time I spoke with you. Sucks

Glenn, Who's doing your work???

When I looked at your engine and you stated you have a 3.5..I believe you had stock-US-fuel lines and injectors SET-UP. Maybe look into euro-setup or methonal system/fuel enrichment safety device if are to going to run CIS.

I have the Old School-HKS-AIC--which you saw. (Not the most accurate system--but werks well)

Hope all works out!!!

Walt
Old 08-15-2011, 04:50 AM
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Hi Krasuskyp,
Thanks for your reply. I obtained the Boost gauge after the rebuild and never installed it. Now I am thinking of selling my 930 after surviving all the repairs. It kinda' takes all the fun out of it.
I truly envy all you very knowledgeable Pelicans who can do the work themselves and do not have to depend on a shop to perform the work.
I truly hate to think this way after being so passionate about my 930 but sometimes I wonder if a less complicated non turbo engine that makes 300HP, may be easier on the mind and on the wallet.
Just a thought.

Last edited by NY930; 08-15-2011 at 05:41 AM..
Old 08-15-2011, 05:37 AM
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I think alot has to do of finding the right mechanic and not taking you to the cleaners. You paid good money to be done right...

You drive it for a short while....then......BOOOM.....

Pay up again......

Walt
Old 08-15-2011, 05:44 AM
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NY930 Dont give up once you get the things you need sorted out the enjoyment of a 930 is truely priceless. It can be a long expensive road but dont rush it. You will be glad in the long run.
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91 964 c2 black/ Work in progress/Finally back on the road
85 EURO 930 Black slightly moded slowly reviving her
77 911tt EFI wide body red/ Slightly modified SOLD
Old 08-15-2011, 05:45 AM
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Hi Walt,
Most people feel that the stock CIS fuel delivery would be lacking with higher performance modifications. That's why I installed a AFR gauge. Even with the 3.5L, new K27, Headers and an aftermarket Intercooler - I'm running 11.0 at wide open throttle under full boost.
Also, after the broken rings and cracked cylinder, my 8 to 1 Mahle pistons looked great and unscathed so the dreaded dentonation was ruled out due to a possible lean fuel delivery condition.
My question is:
Are AFR readings the optimum way to determine if the fuel delivery system is adequate for the additional modifications?

Last edited by NY930; 08-15-2011 at 05:57 AM..
Old 08-15-2011, 05:51 AM
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We all share this very special passion about our 930's.
The thrill of the boost pushing us back into our seats is additive. We can't get enough. But, the great challenge is trying to keep the down time and cost to a minimum.
When we're flying it's fun !
Old 08-15-2011, 06:08 AM
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I would think if you are getting good fuel-the car should not run lean and your temps are down...There shouldn't be a problem.....But overboosting is another story..It only takes one time to play around with Boost...

I still think having anything bigger than a 3.3 or less- shoud have euro hardware and bigger injectors.or some kind of xtra/safety-device on.-.etc...etc.
Maybe a faulty injector can do this...Its CIS--It can all go wrong when you think all is right.

You should look into my mechanic's 996tt---selling it low 40's..Not sure if sold yet..
I would buy it---No garage space-2nd lift won't work and not wide enough either.. and won't sell my old school baby...

Walt

Last edited by wjfk32; 08-15-2011 at 06:24 AM..
Old 08-15-2011, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY930 View Post
Hi Walt,
Most people feel that the stock CIS fuel delivery would be lacking with higher performance modifications. That's why I installed a AFR gauge. Even with the 3.5L, new K27, Headers and an aftermarket Intercooler - I'm running 11.0 at wide open throttle under full boost.
Also, after the broken rings and cracked cylinder, my 8 to 1 Mahle pistons looked great and unscathed so the dreaded dentonation was ruled out due to a possible lean fuel delivery condition.
My question is:
Are AFR readings the optimum way to determine if the fuel delivery system is adequate for the additional modifications?
Sorry you are selling your car. It is my personal opinion you have been lead to some very basic wrong conclusions you read here or from your mechanic regarding turbo engines and that these are causing you reliability issues.

A/F in and of itself is not a measure of safety, firing pressure is and there is no gage for this - but there are knock sensors in modern cars. When one goes down the route of increasing the fixed compression ratio from factory 7.0:1 to 8:1 you buy into running lower boost pressure, not higher, if you want to maintain safe firing pressure limits. This is not an issue of CIS vs. EFI, rather limitations of the basic engine configuration your engine was built to.

Octane is the next critical limitation. Today’s pump gas is very limiting and expecting high performance on fuel that is daily becoming worse is another driver toward having your car in the shop vs. ripping up the street. All your performance add-ons just restore some of the safety the factory sold in this car, when you consider today’s inferior fuel. I suggest setting your boost at .8 bar and reactivating the over boost circuitry – this is there to prevent the failure you just experienced.

I feel if you do both you can have your car, enjoy it’s high performance and stay out of the shop.

Last edited by copbait73; 08-16-2011 at 11:07 AM..
Old 08-15-2011, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie Thunder View Post
It's running motronic, the motor is a 965 - not sure what difference this makes .. Is CIS and Motronic different ??? I'm new to these cars ..
Yes, CIS is mechanical fuel injection. Motronic is EFI. Two totally different animals.

My point is, do not run that amount of boost on pump fuel. Race fuel, yes, but not 98RON pump fuel. Your motor won't last long at this boost level. Do you race this car at all?
Old 08-15-2011, 02:38 PM
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911TT yes it runs 98 + the Nulon Pro Octane Booster ..
I don't race/track this car ...
I think at next service I might go to a 1.2 Bar Spring - to my knowlege this car has been set up this way for years ...
Old 08-15-2011, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie Thunder View Post
911TT yes it runs 98 + the Nulon Pro Octane Booster ..
I don't race/track this car ...
I think at next service I might go to a 1.2 Bar Spring - to my knowlege this car has been set up this way for years ...
Good you don't track it. That's your saving grace. 1.5 bar may hold up when doing the odd / rare sprint from the lights, but any prolonged heavy load runs will surely cause detonation and result in a cracked head, cylinder, or piston (or all three)!

It's a beautiful car, so I'm just making you weary of the potential dangers running such high boost

As for octane boosters. Don't believe the hype. You can't polish a turd, when it comes to "boosting" octane rating of pump grade fuels
Old 08-15-2011, 11:19 PM
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Actually I've been steered towards Toluene ... I've heard great things ...
Toluene..my octane booster of choice - SportsCarForums.com
Old 08-16-2011, 01:21 AM
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Hi Krasuskyp,
I bought the Tell Tale Boost Gauge after the cracked cylinder and have not installed it yet. Now I'm considering selling my 930 to buy another car that will hopefully be less complicated and less problematic.
I wonder if a 300hp non Turbo Porsche will be as much fun without to added complexity.
I envy you boys who have the facilities, time, tools and most importantly the valuable knowledge to keep the wolf at bay and be confident in your own work and enjoy your 930's to the upmost.
So, what do you think ?
Can a 300hp non turbo Porsche be as much fun?
Old 08-16-2011, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY930 View Post
Can a 300hp non turbo Porsche be as much fun?
You're asking that question of the wrong crowd. I think the overwhelming answer would be NO! We of the turbo persuasion enjoy the doggy low compression because it's called "anticipation"....as we hang on for the boost to peg. Then, you go from some sloppy low power machine to 300+ in half a heartbeat. In my old dirt biking lingo, you gotta keep her on the pipe. That's the addiction, nothing linear about 930's.

Seriously, these cars are not as mysterious or confusing as you may think. Just take the time to confirm that all the basics are there - set your mixture at 3.0 %CO or install an AFR gauge to tell you where the mixture is at @ idle (and check cold and warm control pressures as well as system pressure if in doubt of fueling), .8 bar boost spring, a wastegate that works, proper ignition timing by the book, 92+ octane gas, and drive the sucker with confidence like you stole it.
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Old 08-16-2011, 05:46 PM
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Hi Mark,
I like your style and I always enjoy your commentary. I'm glad you didn't self impose your 30 day forum ban that you mentioned humorously in an earlier post.
What you say above is quite true but to get all those essentials worked out well from a shop is not so easy unless you are there watching and confirming.
Ignorance is bliss sometimes.
In the past, I enjoyed my first 930 so much more. A 1977 3.0L non intercooler factory design.
I would drive it with track tires on for 600 miles round trip and race it at Watkins Glen for 3 days and drive her home. I never knew of all the things I should be worrying about. Now I have computers and aftermarket gauges and I'm now scared $hitless of a major failure again.
The Big BANG just took all the old fun out of it.
Before the stock market hurt me in a big way, I had a 1989 DP935 that was detuned down to 430hp and I sold it when I lost control at Lime Rock Raceway. I saved the car from a wreck, but I knew that the future temptation would always be just a foot stomp away.
This stuff is additive, right?

Last edited by NY930; 08-16-2011 at 07:47 PM..
Old 08-16-2011, 07:04 PM
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I think we all live in fear of the ultimate meltdown. What if...what if...some critical piece malfunctions? What I have found is that ignorance is sometimes bliss. With all the on-board gizzmos telling me what my motor is doing, it's almost too much information. I liken it to old-school analog mercury thermometers vs. digital that change every 1/10th of a degree every time you look at it. Too much info. I have to force myself to look at the various gauges just periodically to confirm that all is well, vs. focusing intently on AFR's and such to "make sure" all is safe. $hit, a person should keep his eyes on the road and trust that all is well. Besides, if I were to be blasting along at top boost and see my AFR's hanging at 14 for some reason, it would be too late by then as tell-tale sounds of coins rattling in a tin can would spell doom.
Properly tuned, properly maintained, and these cars are such a kick in the ass that it's worth the worry I guess. Each to his own.
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Old 08-16-2011, 07:17 PM
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NY930 , sorry to here about your car. I to am running 3.5 with 8/1 comp. I run 15-16lbs boost. For safty sake I put in a meth injection kit. I have been running that boost all summer and I have not had one problem.. I know meth injection is another thing that can break but I did my research and the newer kits are pretty proven. I know most peaple say you can get enoeph fuel to run 1 bar but I felt the water and meth would help me from detonation and so far so good.
I have also have issues with my motor in the past. With less boost. Cracked rings.
Anyone who has drivin a good 400-450rwhp turbo is never going to be happy with N.A 300rwhp. Its just not the same.
I have an innovative wide band also and I am always looking at it. At full boost in the upper gears I can go to 7000rpms and be at 11.5 A/F. At 4000 rpms where I am putting alot of stress on the motor from TQ my A/F are in the 11.0-11.2 area. So far so good.
Old 08-17-2011, 01:02 PM
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