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Turbocharging your 3.0 or 3.2

Hi guys! I've been toying with the idea of going turbo on my 88 Carrera. Got a few questions for you

1. Are there companies out there that sell complete kits for our cars? I know promotive has them, but are they the only ones?

2. Has anyone made a build manual for such a project? Something we can all use as a bible. A published book, a thread here, or just somebody's build log...

3. Who here has put on the most "trouble-free miles" on their "930'd" Carrera?


TIA!

Old 08-21-2011, 06:43 AM
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Have read this? Turbocharged My 3.2L Carrera!
Old 08-21-2011, 07:03 AM
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Sorry, typo. Have you read this?
Turbocharged My 3.2L Carrera!
Old 08-21-2011, 07:05 AM
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Yes, I have. I posted there a number of times. Thanks!
Old 08-21-2011, 07:43 AM
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5.7 GT1:

Any other builds worth following?
Old 08-21-2011, 08:14 AM
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Your best bet is simply find a well sorted 3.3L actual 930 engine.

You can probably part out an existing 3.0L or 3.2L and get 3-4K towards a 78-79, or 86-89 3.3L. Stay away from gray-market engines, as they don't conform well conforming to get the car up to DOT spec's.

A common myth(myself included) was thinking there are so many "930..." part numbers on my 'regular' engine, this engine is basically a non-turbo 'turbo' motor. Dead-wrong, as it was just Porsche's parts numbering system.

A non-turbo engine(even from Porsche) is NOT designed from the factory for forced induction...that is why the 930 was so much more expensive(and rare) than the n/a version. That additional cost was not only the materials/parts, but the research and development for the car to run to be reliable, and have flexibility to be driven on the street. That 3.3L also has a nice bump in displacement(via stroke and piston size) to be driven without a giant hole in between boost/non-boost.
In terms of if you ever want to resell the car, it will have a much greater resale value with the real deal under that rear bonnet. Personally, as an engineer, I would not touch a 'project' car that has a 3.0 or 3.2 'turboed' motor(unless it where a rolling chassis sans engine)

The cost in time and effort comes out about the same just selling your existing motor, and go the route I suggested.

Not everyone will concur with this assesment to go the turbo route, but the opinion above if from personal experience, and my engineering 'judgement'


Good luck!
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Old 08-21-2011, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tilikum Turbo View Post
Your best bet is simply find a well sorted 3.3L actual 930 engine.

You can probably part out an existing 3.0L or 3.2L and get 3-4K towards a 78-79, or 86-89 3.3L. Stay away from gray-market engines, as they don't conform well conforming to get the car up to DOT spec's.

A common myth(myself included) was thinking there are so many "930..." part numbers on my 'regular' engine, this engine is basically a non-turbo 'turbo' motor. Dead-wrong, as it was just Porsche's parts numbering system.

A non-turbo engine(even from Porsche) is NOT designed from the factory for forced induction...that is why the 930 was so much more expensive(and rare) than the n/a version. That additional cost was not only the materials/parts, but the research and development for the car to run to be reliable, and have flexibility to be driven on the street. That 3.3L also has a nice bump in displacement(via stroke and piston size) to be driven without a giant hole in between boost/non-boost.
In terms of if you ever want to resell the car, it will have a much greater resale value with the real deal under that rear bonnet. Personally, as an engineer, I would not touch a 'project' car that has a 3.0 or 3.2 'turboed' motor(unless it where a rolling chassis sans engine)

The cost in time and effort comes out about the same just selling your existing motor, and go the route I suggested.

Not everyone will concur with this assesment to go the turbo route, but the opinion above if from personal experience, and my engineering 'judgement'


Good luck!

I believe the 3.2 has the same exact crank and rods as the turbo, plus you also get the added benefit of EFI with the Carrera 3.2 motronic ECU. The main difference in the motors is the compression ratio. I just did this conversion on my rebuilt 3.2. I think that there are several ways to go about doing it, so I suggest doing your research first. In terms of drivability, a turboed 3.2 is a great combination with virtually zero lag and tons of power even at moderate boost levels. There are many guys on this forum that have put together some nice 3.2 turbo conversions....actually kinda inspired me.

Here's mine:

Joining the boost club.
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Old 08-21-2011, 11:50 AM
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Yep, lots if advantage in a 3.2 turbo IMO, freer flowing heads, cams and EFI. Run 7-10psi all day.

A 3.2 running just 7psi (0.5bar) has the power of a 964 3.6 Turbo and will do similar 0-400 times, tested by Protomotive. I'm by no way saying it will be better car, I know what I'd rather, but for little investment and effort, that's what you come up with.

I had my car out on the weekend, still a blast 3 years on, would never go back. Installing a CIS engine is a step back IMO, for some serious power, C2 base gaskets to lower the compression, some ARP studs and a head clean up, it's my next step.
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Old 08-21-2011, 03:14 PM
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I have to agree with spence88mph.

"Going super fast" has a conversion kit available also. I believe the chip would have to come from Protomotive.
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:17 PM
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Hey Rick!

How's the car going? Get much seat time over summer?
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:33 PM
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Hey Spence,

I've got about a 1,000 more mile on it. Still debugging a little. I had a miss at full boost and full throttle, it was the spark plugs loosing spark. Last time on the dyno at 4500 rpm it was putting out 356 hp and 330 ft lbs of torque. I changed to a .8 bar wastegate spring and 944T injectors and Todd remapped the chip. I have not had it back on the dyno yet, but it is running well other than a little idle issue.

Thanks for asking,
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1985 911 Targa RarlyL8 center outlet muffler & waste gate dump,GT30R turbo,.9 bar spring,Canems programable DME, around 400 wheel hp
Old 08-22-2011, 02:46 AM
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GSF has some great pieces and you don't need a chip. I was originally planning on going the chip route because I thought I needed a new one anyway. The early motronic chips are mapped pretty conservative and I happened to find my old original one, so I used that with an MSD 6BTM with boost retard. This gives you some adjustability. For fuel I just used a RRFPR. The MAF from split second also has air/fuel adjustments over the entire power band so if I decide to up the boost I can re-adjust for it. I think the chip is very hard to get just right and is kind of cookie cutter unless they have the car. If I were to go the chip route I would have someone program one specifically for my car while it was sitting on their dyno. But thats just my opponion.
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Old 08-22-2011, 07:52 AM
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Ran a search on GSF and found this... Porsche 911 turbo header muffler turbo package deal | eBay


Looks pretty good to me but then again I've never done this before.

Thoughts? What else would I need to complete my shopping list?
Old 08-23-2011, 05:56 AM
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Those are the main components and GSF has quality parts too. You'll still need a wastegate and you need to address the ign retard and extra fuel. This is where people go about it differently. Most commonly used is a rising rate fuel pressure reg. Dont waste time trying to get the chip from Portomotive, he doesnt like to sell individual components. Just use the MSD6BTM with boost retard and a stock chip. It works even better because you can adjust the amount of retard you want, unlike the chip. Oil drain is another issue. Some guys are successful just running a drain line to the engine and some need to use a scavange pump. Do more research first before you start buying parts because one you learn more you may change your mind about a few things. Hope this helps.

MSD Ignition 6462 - MSD 6-BTM CD Ignitions - Overview - SummitRacing.com
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Old 08-23-2011, 07:43 AM
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Just an observation about Protomotive, Todd has always been helpful when in need. My components were sourced from GSF from a previous Pelican user. He is always willing to talk.
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1985 911 Targa RarlyL8 center outlet muffler & waste gate dump,GT30R turbo,.9 bar spring,Canems programable DME, around 400 wheel hp
Old 08-23-2011, 08:12 AM
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When I first started this, I was going to use the chip because that's all I knew. Todd gave me some general info but seemed reluctant to just burn a chip for me. He seemed to want to sell me a pressure sensing system for thousands of dollars or at least the chip with his $500 fuel pressure reg. I actually e-mailed him a few times telling him I wanted only the chip and never got a response. That's when I started looking for other options. I'm sorry but I'm not impressed with Portomotive or they're customer service.
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:32 AM
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Rodsrsr - how was the switch to a MAF? Did you get a canned tune to start with?

Thanks,
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:07 AM
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Are we unanimous on this "no chip" approach?
Old 08-23-2011, 09:09 AM
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The MAF conversion is awesome. I just used a split second ARC2 controller with a FORD MAF. controller allows adjustment of air/fuel ratio over rpm range. The car runs better than its ever run before. Much smoother, almost like a new vechile.

Air/Fuel Calibrators


As far as the chip goes, If you already have one I wouldnt change it, but there's no reason to try and hunt down a chip when there are other products availible that will do the same thing even better. This system is obviously not as good as a stand alone ecu, but it's much better than a chip with the old barn door AFM.
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:32 AM
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The most cost effective complete kit solution out there is from GSF.

In terms of fuel & ignition, for 100% plug'n'play you can't go past Protomotive's chip and regulator. They are a matched pair which is probably why they don't like selling one without the other I'd say.

You can build something cheaper using mostly second hand bits of course, and if you don't care about heat, OBX sells suitable headers for $369 or so. I think they are T321 SS too!?

I agree with what Spencer said above. DO NOT rip out your 3.2 and fit in a CIS 930 motor. LOTS of work to take a step backwards, and have a lag monster of a motor (in stock trim). A turbo'd 3.2 is far more responsive to drive compared to a 930 due to the higher compression EFI motor. 360hp at only 0.5 bar, or 400hp at 0.7 bar intercooled using STOCK internals! Just make sure your motor is tight before doing such an upgrade (e.g. No warn valve guides or rings etc) and you'll be right


Last edited by 911TT33; 08-23-2011 at 03:03 PM..
Old 08-23-2011, 02:54 PM
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