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Oheggem's Avatar
 
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Oil in turbo inlet. Where`s it coming from?

hi there.

I have some problems with blue smoke. Not too bad but bad enough. I removed the turbo today and i can see it`s coming from the turbo inlet. That means it`s not the turbo seals. I removed the inlet pipe and it`s wet with oil inside.

How do i source down where the issue is? Which sylinder?

Thanks for any help on this

Oheggem

Old 09-01-2011, 07:22 AM
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After doing some more work like removing the exhaust, turbo, headers etc i took a photo of what i believe is the problem.

This is my work area now
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/204/06092011029.jpg

This is the front, left side exhaust valve.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/06092011030.jpg

This is the center left side exhaust valve.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/845/06092011031.jpg

I can see oil inside there but it doesn`t look like it comes from worn valve stems. Anyone have seen this before and know where the problem is?

Tia
Oheggem

Last edited by Oheggem; 09-06-2011 at 06:54 AM..
Old 09-06-2011, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oheggem View Post
After doing some more work like removing the exhaust, turbo, headers etc i took a photo of what i believe is the problem.

This is my work area now
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

This is the front, left side exhaust valve.
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

This is the center left side exhaust valve.
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

I can see oil inside there but it doesn`t look like it comes from worn valve stems. Anyone have seen this before and know where the problem is?

Tia
Oheggem

Valve stems....Check your cylinder compression..
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1975 914, 1988 944 turbo S sold.
1986 944 turbo resleeve 2.7, DTA S-60 PRO.
1986 911 Carrera with 965 turbo motor, DTA S-80 PRO.
1989 930 EFI, DTA, Carrera intake, twinturbo,2x GT-35R.
1991 964 convertible, wide body conversion.
Old 09-06-2011, 07:01 AM
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I thought i`d go ahead and change that valve stem with the engine in the car. i have no chance to check cylinder compression where i`m at and i can`t move the car now so i have to just try and fix this and do a cylinder compression test later at a garage.

The turbo seems fine though

So changing valve stem and guide and this might be fixed?

Chime in if there`s any other opinions
Old 09-06-2011, 09:32 AM
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was the oil in the pipe going from the air metering plate to the turbo?
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oheggem View Post
I thought i`d go ahead and change that valve stem with the engine in the car. i have no chance to check cylinder compression where i`m at and i can`t move the car now so i have to just try and fix this and do a cylinder compression test later at a garage.

The turbo seems fine though

So changing valve stem and guide and this might be fixed?

Chime in if there`s any other opinions
Before I rebuild my 1986 3.2 Carrera motor I have blue smoke come out when motor oil gets hot....Valve stems, valve guilds.
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1975 914, 1988 944 turbo S sold.
1986 944 turbo resleeve 2.7, DTA S-60 PRO.
1986 911 Carrera with 965 turbo motor, DTA S-80 PRO.
1989 930 EFI, DTA, Carrera intake, twinturbo,2x GT-35R.
1991 964 convertible, wide body conversion.
Old 09-06-2011, 05:14 PM
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Valve stem, valve guide = engine rebuild.
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1975 914, 1988 944 turbo S sold.
1986 944 turbo resleeve 2.7, DTA S-60 PRO.
1986 911 Carrera with 965 turbo motor, DTA S-80 PRO.
1989 930 EFI, DTA, Carrera intake, twinturbo,2x GT-35R.
1991 964 convertible, wide body conversion.
Old 09-06-2011, 05:20 PM
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Drop the engine to do the valve guides it's much easier to work on it out of the car.
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Old 09-06-2011, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roby466 View Post
was the oil in the pipe going from the air metering plate to the turbo?
I believe so. Little wet all the way to the intake. But also from the photos the one wet valve.

Quote:
Drop the engine to do the valve guides it's much easier to work on it out of the car.
I read somewhere that it`s possible to change this with the engine in. Either fill the sylinder with compressed air or a rope or something to keep the valve in place when you work. Since it`s just the one i thought i`d give it a go.

I really don`t want a rebuild on my hands where i work at my car now. Heads are turning already
Old 09-07-2011, 02:18 AM
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Ken is talking about replacing valve guides and you're talking about replacing valve stem seals - two different things.

The valve guide is the the bronze alloy guide that is pressed into the cylinder head and then the the valve is inserted into it.
Head has to come off to replace it and the valve seal can be replaced with the head on the motor after the spring retainer and spring have been removed.

You linked to pictures of the exhaust valve ports. The guides and oil leakage around them don't look bad compared to most of them on 911 turbo's that have some miles on them and there is absolutely no correlation between exhaust valve ports and oil in the turbo's steel intake pipe or aluminum charge pipe.
If the exhaust valve seal and guide leak oil into the exhaust ports it gets partially burned during the exhaust stroke and blown through the exhaust headers, hot side or turbine side of the turbocharger, through the muffler and out the exhaust.

Oil leaking there will be likely from when the motor sits for a while after running and the engine case, oil return tubes and bottom section of the cam towers where the exhaust valve stems are fill up with oil and if the seals and guides are worn it can seep into the exhaust ports.
When the engine is running there is positive exhaust pressure in the ports and it would blow any excessive oil in the clearance between the valve stem and valve guide back up the valve stem past the valve seal and into the cam tower.

Oil in the intake pipe and airflow meter like you have is likely coming from the oil tank breather hose and that usually points to over filled engine oil level, or worn piston rings, piston ring lands, cylinder walls, or broken piston rings from excessive detonation and the resulting combustion blowby carrying oil mist into the crankacse breather hose and if it's eventually connected to the air cleaner housing like it origonally is it gets recycled into the air intake leaving oil film on everything in it's path.

You're better off asking motor questions with pictures like this on the engine rebuilding forum... there will be more accurate and helpful replies and fewer guesses there.

Check the oil level while the motor is hot and idleing, and do a compression and leakdown test.
Old 09-07-2011, 08:36 AM
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+1 on possibly having a little too much oil in the oil tank. If I run 1/2 quart more I get blue smoke on startup but then it goes away after a few seconds. When I run 1/2 quart less, no blue smoke. But then again, you could just rebuild the entire motor instead as suggested. LOL
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:54 PM
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Wow. Thanks for that. Oil level has been a little low and when i drained it this weekend about 9 liters from both sump and tank. Filled up is about 14 liters so i`m good there.

I think i`ll change the valve stem only then on the sylinder with the wet valve, change most gaskets, new oil, oil filter, plugs etc etc get it back together and take it from there.

Initionally i thought the turbo was gone as a friend was on my ass when i downshifted to run off and got blue smoke coming out. I noticed the oil coming into the turbo inlet and that made me unsure as that has nothing to do with turbo. Then when i removed the headers i noticed the exhaust valve wet.
Quote:
Oil in the intake pipe and airflow meter like you have is likely coming from the oil tank breather hose and that usually points to over filled engine oil level, or worn piston rings, piston ring lands, cylinder walls, or broken piston rings from excessive detonation and the resulting combustion blowby carrying oil mist into the crankacse breather hose and if it's eventually connected to the air cleaner housing like it origonally is it gets recycled into the air intake leaving oil film on everything in it's path.
This film of oil is just what it seems like. Not much but a thin layer of oil everywhere. Also in the IC.
I can hear a small oil sucking sound when i move the impellar wheel around on the turbo. Not sure how much movement i much.
I will post a thread into the engine forum now that i know it`s there. How did i miss that.

Quote:
you could just rebuild the entire motor instead as suggested. LOL
Really don`t want to do that!!
Old 09-07-2011, 07:12 PM
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Oil in the intake tract is pretty dang normal for these cars. Anyone that has pulled the IC firsthand has seen this and wondered. But, if you simply look at the big giant rubber hose going from the oil tank to the air cleaner (after the filter) you can see how "some"oil would get in the intake side. If I do not start mine for 4-5 days I get a huge belch of blue smoke at startup. My neighbor loves to see the cloud... cause he knows it is time to take the turbo for a ride! JFairman is right on when he said to check your compression and leak down. But, even with good numbers you will see some blue smoke at times because of the way the oil tank breathes into the intake. I don't know how many quarts 14 liters amounts to, but I get a good smoke screen to kill the mosquitos after I fill her with 10 fresh quarts. About a week or two later the level drops a little bit and then she smokes no more!
Good luck either way... I hope it is an easy fix for you!
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Old 09-07-2011, 07:24 PM
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Hei Oheggem,

I had too too high oil level in mine as well for a time, and it smoked due too that oil was coming out of the oil breather hose and into the meterring plate and in the inlet side of the turbo.
Went away when drained some oil away.

As mentioned, you need to drop the engine and remove the cylinder heads to replace the valve guides.
I replaced them on my previous 930 when I did a rebuild. "Cylinder Service" replaced the valve guides as they need to be pressed in.

I'm doing a rebuild on a 3.0 SC engine now, and will replace the guides here as well.

Hope it all turns out well for you

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Old 09-08-2011, 01:51 AM
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