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DSPTurtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Suntree, Florida, USA
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Let's see if my memory works here (if not I am sure I will be corrected )
Components with pressure...
1. Charge pipe (or up pipe)... an orange seal on the bottom to the turbo
2. IC... orange seal to the charge pipe, orange seal to the BOV (assuming yours is stock). Three, maybe four fittings that tie into other components... major ones are the aux air valve, and the waste gate line. Check to see that those are tight and not ripped. I had a spilt line to the WG and it made a whistle.
3. BOV... there are a few pesky fittings on there plus a few hoses. Taking the BOV off is a biatch so check the other stuff first. There is also an orange seal to the throttle body here... but you can reach in with your finger and see how well the BOV is mounted.
4. Throttle Body... two main fittings on that. One going to the dizzy and one to the WUR. Make sure those are tight. Believe it or not, those tiny van/boost hoses can leak enough to limit you to the numbers you are seeing.
Total time invested for those checks is about 20 minutes and a 13mm socket to remove the IC.
5. WUR... if the diaphragm is ripped it could cause this, but this is your lowest probability at this point.

But, you seem to mention that all this started when you installed your mechanical boost gauge. Are you sure you tapped into the vac hose correctly? I am not accusing you of poor workmanship, but if your issues did not start until this modification you should try to undo the mod, and go for a ride. See if that fixes it. The brake booster is an easy way to do the mod, but the right way is to tap the IC or the BOV. Much harder to do because you have to run a line all the way from back to front, but guarantees you don't screw up something else.
I had a blown out orange seal and it was limiting me to 0.5bar... not too far from what you are seeing. The higher boost in the higher gear is due to the efficiency of everything working and not stressing the seals as much. Someone with a thermodynamics background can elaborate but trust me... I have seen the same symptoms as you at least twice. Once for the orange seal and once for the ripped WG line.
Most importantly, GOOD LUCK!!!

Now for the litany of corrections from our fellow pelicanites

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Old 10-01-2011, 07:31 PM
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Thanks Mark and Turtle. I have had this issue with the car since I purchased it 4 years ago. The car was in storage and I never had a garage to work on it so I lived with the issue. Step 1 was to put in the gauge to confirm what the butt dyno and dash gauge were telling me. It confirmed my suspicion.

I ordered all new seals from our friends here but they have not yet arrived. I will do down that route next weekend. Good possibility this is the issue. The only maintenance I had done to the car was a voltage regulator in the back of a parking lot and the IC had to come off for that. Oil, filter, and air filter as well.

Fueling also a possibility. I also read posts about the throttle body screws loosening over time. I will check that as well.

I am planning a full 30k service in about a month. A lot of this conversation is telling me what to look for when I do this. The cat is coming off at that time, and I have a local shop that can check/ test the Turbo and WG for me if the easy stuff does not solve the problem in the next couple of weeks. Regardless, it is nice to be able to drive the car and also have a place to work on it.
Old 10-02-2011, 05:08 AM
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Well guys here is the update. I added injector cleaner and ran through a tank of gas over the past week. Also replaced all IC seals. Most of the old ones looked fine, but the rubber seal (not the red o-ring) on the primary boost pressure pipe from turbo to IC was in bad shape. It is the black one where the pipe meets the IC. Also replaced the filter for the air pump - it was really nasty but don't think it would cause this issue.

No issues at all today with boost. It was warmer than last weekend, in the 70s. Drove over 100 miles on nice twisty roads and I could not get her to fail. I think the issue is solved, and my guess is gunk buildup was limiting fuel when warm. It is good to have this solved prior to the next set of maintenance so I can see the difference before and after the 30k service and cat bypass.
Old 10-08-2011, 03:55 PM
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Thread revival.
I finally got around to taking the exhaust, turbo, and WG off for 30K mile service. WG seems to be in good working order and has been rebuilt. Turbo was sent to Turbo Kraft and they tell me it is not a stock unit but one that was used on a 930S or Ruf BTR. I am sorry I did not get the number as I was talking to Chris in a noisy environment and could not hear what he said. He did say the stock intercooler would not hold up to this turbo. It is simply underpowered.

Questions for you guys.
1) I did some searching and it appears the turbo could have been a special wishes request. Does that make sense? Chris says it is a very rare part.

2) I was planning to keep the car stock. But, with the cat off and what seems to be an upgraded turbo the slippery slope has begun. Would you replace the IC? I could always put the stock one back on 30 years from now when I sell the car.

3) How is the Turbo Kraft IC? I like it as it is a bolt on replacement that would allow me to go back to the stock.

Value is important, but I do plan to drive the car and want to enjoy it. Lack of boost in the summer is a killer.

Final bit of info. It seems the engine mount cross bar sheared in half at some point on the right side. I little surprise for me.
Old 04-14-2012, 05:17 AM
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I'm still scratching my head - waiting for an ah-ha moment - that clearly points to your boost issue (which seems to mysteriously have gone away). Assuming no plumbing leaks and validated WG functioning correctly and no issues with the turbo itself, a zero boost condition points to the boost recirulation valve maybe sticking open. Did you ever pull it apart? (spring loaded piston that's built in to the left side of the secondary intake manifold which sits on top of the primary intake manifold). Fueling can cause low boost, but zero boost...probably not without other symptoms showing up.

Anyway, to your question. If you do indeed have a "special" turbo, hang on to it with your life! To realize it's full potential, yes an aftermarket larger IC is called for. You'll end up with a colder, denser air charge which equates to reduced chances of detonation and more HP. You will notice the difference.

Shop around a bit for IC's. You can go with a short neck that will bolt right up with no modifications, or go with a long neck that allows you to remove the boost recirculation manifold for weight reduction and faster spool-up of the turbo, but this does require a couple other things (like a BOV and 964 elbow to mount it to).

Used IC's can usually be had for around $750 to $1000, new are probably in the $1500 range. Good performance investment that along with a good turbo and free-flowing exhaust will make a huge difference in performance.
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Mark H. 1987 930, GP White, Wevo shifter, Borla exhaust, stock everything else. The result of a massive Pelicanite good will fire recovery effort. Truely an open book, ready for the slippery slopes to modification.
Old 04-14-2012, 06:27 AM
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Get a good Intercooler, and a long neck Is a great way to update/bypass all the older junk that might be problematic if it isn't already. Just keep that stuff and even rebuild it while it's out and your enjoying cool boost from your new toys. Did we see pics?
Old 04-14-2012, 07:01 AM
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Could his wastegate diaphragm be torn, holes...... This is what was wrong with mine. They are rubber and dry out over time also get holes from use.
Old 04-14-2012, 07:59 AM
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Thanks guys for the advice. I have not checked the recirculation valve but that ugly beast is sitting on the workbench and I will get to it over the next couple of weeks. In the cold weather I have zero boost issues, only shows up when hot outside.

Realizing the thread is worthless without pics, here we go. Some of the car, some of the work in progress.



Old 04-14-2012, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny771 View Post
Could his wastegate diaphragm be torn, holes...... This is what was wrong with mine. They are rubber and dry out over time also get holes from use.
Benny, let's think about that. If the diaphram is torn, then the WG won't function, i.e., it won't open in response to the boost pressure signal because the pressure will just leak through the torn diaphram and the WG valve won't open. Wouldn't overboost be the result, as opposed to no boost at all? Our friend Rob is dealing with a (at the moment) phantom no-boost scenario.
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Mark H. 1987 930, GP White, Wevo shifter, Borla exhaust, stock everything else. The result of a massive Pelicanite good will fire recovery effort. Truely an open book, ready for the slippery slopes to modification.
Old 04-14-2012, 06:46 PM
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That baby looks far too nice not to be performing at it's full potential. Black is the right color for these cars, followed by white followed by red. Just my opinion which means squat to just me.
Get rid of the cat, get rid of the stock muff. Even if that were all you did, you would see/feel a marked performance improvement.
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Mark H. 1987 930, GP White, Wevo shifter, Borla exhaust, stock everything else. The result of a massive Pelicanite good will fire recovery effort. Truely an open book, ready for the slippery slopes to modification.
Old 04-14-2012, 06:50 PM
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Fabspeed single outlet muffler is going on as soon as the turbo comes back. The cat and stock muffler are already in storage and long forgotten. Replacing the cat was really the reason for pulling everything else.

Thanks for the comments on the color. I love black and white. Came about a mm from buying a white one but backed off at the last minute. Can't go wrong with either.
Old 04-14-2012, 06:58 PM
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Here is the update. Mark seems to have hit the nail on the head regarding the boost issue. I finally got around to working on the car again and the boost recirculation valve was a mess. The two ends were well sealed from the passage of time, but the gaskets were disintegrating and many of the pieces were inside and stuck to the spring and the walls. Lots of junk inside that clearly did not belong. The piston moved with a great deal of force, but not freely and could easily have stuck. After cleaning it all up and even before lubrication the piston now moves freely.

Looking forward to getting it back together now.
Old 04-22-2012, 12:38 PM
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Mark is right on.

I had a stock 930-stock intercooler for the longest time. I have a 7006-SC Cams-MSD6AL-BB-Dual exhaust-No Cat-HKS AIC- 1BAR Spring-.etc..etc..

Just upgraded to an Andial/Intercooler--short neck.(bolt on). & KEP-STAGE 2-Lightweight PP-CLUTCH Yes there is quite a big difference on top end..Didn't think it would be that much of a difference in performance..But it is...The only downside is that my fuel mileage did go down quite a bit. ..Gotta stay off the throtle.....Boost is a badass drug... .

Would suggest to get AFR-Meter for safety..My plugs look good..but u never know..
Turbo/boost is going to cost u either way...U LIVE ONCE...ENJOY IT.

P.S--If I was going for an exhaust-- i heard the hooligan and the quieter version recently..Both are sweet.

Walt

Last edited by wjfk32; 04-23-2012 at 06:18 AM..
Old 04-23-2012, 06:08 AM
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2 pics-Andial



Old 04-23-2012, 06:20 AM
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Hi Walt:

Sweet set up! I am going to try to get the car back out on the road with the cat gone and everything else stock but rebuilt and working this time around. I will save my pennies for the IC and start shopping for second hand. No question this would be the next best upgrade should I start sliding down that slope. I already spend a ton on the track car, why not start on the street car as well.
Old 04-23-2012, 06:27 AM
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Greetings Rob.

As the saying goes--"It will never end"

Look into the used parts-pelican- for an intercooler..I got lucky. XBMWGUY--went efi..

Didn't like the fabspeed set-up intercooler---No rear mounting bracket..Just a silicone hose-boost clamp....jeeezz..for that kind of gelt...

Update-Recently saw the guy who had the incident with that intercooler the 1st time...Now he has like 4 or 5 ring clamps to hold it down....for now...Should of took a pic.

Old 04-23-2012, 06:36 AM
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