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Cole,

I haven't checked, but the car was running when this happens. I believe it is there as the oil flow stops when the motor is not running. I would think it would continue to flow with the residual pressure if there was not a check valve.
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-84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo, 78 930 RoW no option sunroof coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 71 911T, 73 911E, 67 Bronco survivor. 71 FJ40, 95 M3 (for sale)
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:30 PM
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What does #26 (oil line) go to? I do not have this line. can I use this to return the oil to in the mean while?

http://www.pelicanparts.com/911/911_Parts/1978-83/1-4-2.JPG

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John- I blame and thank the longhood boys of Austin
-84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo, 78 930 RoW no option sunroof coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 71 911T, 73 911E, 67 Bronco survivor. 71 FJ40, 95 M3 (for sale)
"Illegitimi non carborundum"
Old 11-02-2011, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundevil64 View Post
Another update. I plugged the hole and took the car out for a very easy 2 mile drive around the block. I kept the speed to a max of 35mph. I went on boost briefly (.2bar) and then did the last mile as a cool down. I eased into 1st gear for the drive down my driveway and came to a stop at which point it started smoking like crazy and shut the car down. I start it back up after a couple of minutes and it was smoking while idling. I am only having this problem when coming to near idle speed when the motor is warm about 130*f.

hmmm
Did you have this near idle speed smoking problem when the catch can was vented?
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Old 11-02-2011, 02:28 PM
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No the oil just leaked out through the sintered vent.

I am going to do a hot test as this is when the problems arise. I did the flow comparision test cold simply because it's easier to work in the area. I guess I will wear double gloves or welding gloves...
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John- I blame and thank the longhood boys of Austin
-84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo, 78 930 RoW no option sunroof coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 71 911T, 73 911E, 67 Bronco survivor. 71 FJ40, 95 M3 (for sale)
"Illegitimi non carborundum"
Old 11-02-2011, 02:32 PM
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I just did a warm motor test and there is a difference.

This time using 30 oz of oil for supply.

24oz of fluid sucked up by the scavenge pump and 27oz was the out put from the catch can a 3oz variance or 3oz too much on the supply side.

The oil in the car now is 15-40w. I know it should be 20-50w. Should I change the oil or is this just wasting oil?

Or pull the scavenge pump and inspect the pin and possibly change the seals. Where do I get these seals. I haven't opened one yet.

Thanks,

John
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John- I blame and thank the longhood boys of Austin
-84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo, 78 930 RoW no option sunroof coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 71 911T, 73 911E, 67 Bronco survivor. 71 FJ40, 95 M3 (for sale)
"Illegitimi non carborundum"
Old 11-02-2011, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundevil64 View Post
I just did a warm motor test and there is a difference.

This time using 30 oz of oil for supply.

24oz of fluid sucked up by the scavenge pump and 27oz was the out put from the catch can a 3oz variance or 3oz too much on the supply side.

The oil in the car now is 15-40w. I know it should be 20-50w. Should I change the oil or is this just wasting oil?

Or pull the scavenge pump and inspect the pin and possibly change the seals. Where do I get these seals. I haven't opened one yet.

Thanks,

John

John,
I think you have too much oil feeding the turbo. You're probably missing the check valve ball. That's the good news. The bad news is getting at the area you need to verify the ball check valve is there. Check out Cole's picture in the previous post and you'll see where it is.
Sounds like the previous owner knew of the problem but didn't know how to rectify it so they put in the vent on top of the catch can.
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:57 PM
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I'll check to see if the check ball is in there. If it isn't where would I get one. Isn't it a NLA item? Do I need to drain the oil in the tank or would I be okay opening that up with oil in the tank?
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-84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo, 78 930 RoW no option sunroof coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 71 911T, 73 911E, 67 Bronco survivor. 71 FJ40, 95 M3 (for sale)
"Illegitimi non carborundum"

Last edited by sundevil64; 11-02-2011 at 06:24 PM..
Old 11-02-2011, 06:20 PM
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John,

I you don't have the ball just send me a PM with your address and I'll
mail one to you.

Cole
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:24 PM
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Cole,

Thank you for the offer, but I am happy to say I have a check ball. It was easy to get everything out, but to put the lower washer for the banjo back in...not as easy.

I'm guessing pull the scavenge pump? I have another on another motor I guess I could "scavenge" from... I was trying to go to cars and coffee this weekend... We'll see...
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John- I blame and thank the longhood boys of Austin
-84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo, 78 930 RoW no option sunroof coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 71 911T, 73 911E, 67 Bronco survivor. 71 FJ40, 95 M3 (for sale)
"Illegitimi non carborundum"
Old 11-02-2011, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundevil64 View Post
I just did a warm motor test and there is a difference.

This time using 30 oz of oil for supply.

24oz of fluid sucked up by the scavenge pump and 27oz was the out put from the catch can a 3oz variance or 3oz too much on the supply side.

The oil in the car now is 15-40w. I know it should be 20-50w. Should I change the oil or is this just wasting oil?

Or pull the scavenge pump and inspect the pin and possibly change the seals. Where do I get these seals. I haven't opened one yet.

Thanks,

John
The seals have nothing to do with the flow of the pump they just prevent any leakage as the pump is a simple gear oil pump. Check the lines running to and from the pump for small leaks or they may even be partially blocked or collapsed internally. You should take them off the car and blow them out and see if they are wet from leaking.

If not that, it sounds like your seals are leaking in the turbo. Does the smoking stop after a little while idling or does it continue?
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Old 11-02-2011, 09:17 PM
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You can't use the #26 as it does not have a loop higher inside the oil tank so it would drain back to the turbo after shutdown.
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Old 11-02-2011, 09:39 PM
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smurfbus,

That makes sense due to gravity feed. I would have to put a check valve in to prevent backflow.
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John- I blame and thank the longhood boys of Austin
-84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo, 78 930 RoW no option sunroof coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 71 911T, 73 911E, 67 Bronco survivor. 71 FJ40, 95 M3 (for sale)
"Illegitimi non carborundum"
Old 11-03-2011, 04:35 AM
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Okay I have an update with an answer.

After checking all the lines and replacing the scavenge pump with another known good one I still had the same problem.

I ran a few more tests and found the threshold of the overflow at the vent to be about 1500 rpm.

I texted the PO and asked "Are there cam oil restrictors on the motor?" I wasn't aware at the time of the "groove" that is in them to identify them installed. He texted me back "Yes...". That would . explain the increased oil flow at temperature as the oil viscosity changes the flow increases to a point where the scavenge pump cannot keep up Now if I had the Clewitt scavenge pump it wouldn't be a problem as that one has a higher volume across the board, but I don't.

They were put in because the motor has spun a rod bearing, understandable. I think I will drill out the restrictors from 2.5mm to 4mm which is 1mm smaller than the stock which should give a little more oil to the rod bearings and not be a problem with the scavenge pump.
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John- I blame and thank the longhood boys of Austin
-84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo, 78 930 RoW no option sunroof coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 71 911T, 73 911E, 67 Bronco survivor. 71 FJ40, 95 M3 (for sale)
"Illegitimi non carborundum"
Old 11-03-2011, 03:50 PM
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bb, ghl,fabspeed,mode,and i would say any other aftermarket header manufacurer never vented their cans, only the factory set up did and i believe that was for emissions. plug it.....my 2 pennies
Old 11-04-2011, 02:49 AM
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On the "plugging" of the oil catch can, I can say this through recent personal experience. If there is a problem in the turbo oil recovery system whether it be on the scavenging side or the supply side such as more oil is supplied than removed then the oil will back up into the turbo if there is no where else for it to go. If this happens we all know or should know by now in this thread you risk your turbo seals.

When the catch can was not vented the oil would back up into the turbo burn thus causing smoke out of the exhaust. When I vented the catch can it would escape out of the vent (sintered bronze) and onto the ground.

I am for the venting because sorb-all is cheaper than a turbo rebuild/reseal. I'm just speaking from my experience.

In conclusion, I replaced the restrictors with the stock adaptors and I no longer have the problem of the leak. I will probably reinstall the restrictors due to a history of spinning a rod bearing, but I am going to open up the restrictors to 4.5mm the size of the holes in the banjo bolt from 2.5mm. The stock was are 6mm vs the 5mm I stated earlier. I took the 5mm from a posted link and for my application is was not correct. Apparently there must be two different sizes.

Thank you to all for your help and suggestions. I do appreciate this forum and I guess I need to put in an order at PP...

John
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John- I blame and thank the longhood boys of Austin
-84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo, 78 930 RoW no option sunroof coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 71 911T, 73 911E, 67 Bronco survivor. 71 FJ40, 95 M3 (for sale)
"Illegitimi non carborundum"

Last edited by sundevil64; 11-04-2011 at 05:26 AM.. Reason: added conclusion
Old 11-04-2011, 03:04 AM
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Well strange as it may sound I just got the same problem while on boost . Hit 8 bar then all of a sudden boost dropped and the turbo made a sound like it put the brakes on. Started blowing a masive amount of smoke so I pulled over. Oil was flowing out of my catch can vent just like yours but maybe a little more aggresive plus leaking from the bottom of the turbo. Pulled the intercooler and the turbo has oil in it. Towed it home and now hitting the search button. Any hints welcome.
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Old 11-06-2011, 10:58 AM
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Mine didn't do it while on boost. The problem was with the restrictors the volume was greater than the scavenge pump could remove at rpm's lower than 1500. Problem was resolved by removing the restrictors. I am going to drill out the restrictor to a larger hole, so I can send a little more pressure to the bottom end, just not as much as before.

Your problem is of a different nature. I test the scavenge pump utilizing the above methods. My guess, just a guess, would be the drive pin in the scavenge pump since you were on full power when the symptoms occurred. It 's easy to pull. You'll need to remove the supply and return lines and two 10mm nuts. While you have it out you may want to replace the seals. If I recall there are three that Pelican may carry, but I know Zim's carries them. I ordered there because I can get it next day for the price of normal ups ground.

Let us know what it is. I would be concerned about the seals in your turbo, but I would check that later. First find the cause, then correct the damage.

John
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-84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo, 78 930 RoW no option sunroof coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 71 911T, 73 911E, 67 Bronco survivor. 71 FJ40, 95 M3 (for sale)
"Illegitimi non carborundum"
Old 11-06-2011, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
would be the drive pin in the scavenge pump since you were on full power when the symptoms occurred.
That's what I'm leaning to John. I'm going to test it like the video below shows.

3LDZm with 1.5.mp4 - YouTube
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Old 11-06-2011, 02:25 PM
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John,
Can you be more specific about the restrictions you removed? Which ones? I seem to have a similar problem and after reading your posts I think it might be related to a different banjo bolt used on the scavenge pump intake but want to be sure. I have a fresh rebuilt engine. with a rebuilt turbo but it started leaking soon after I turned the engine to circulate the oil.
.
I have not drive the car yet. Now it has a muffler and not long after I start it, the turbo starts leaking through the exhaust flange clamp (between the exhaust casing and the bearing body) and then starts smoking bad, all at about 1200 rpm. I will like to determine if it is the turbo or the scavenge pump / banjo issue. Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks Joe
Old 11-06-2011, 05:30 PM
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Oilonly,

That should give you a good indication. Make sure you have a decent size container. My motor supplied 24oz in very short order.

Flatsix965,

I removed some cam oil restrictors that were installed. See the link for location. There are two and they are relatively easy to get to, the left side is a little bit of a pain. I had to loosen my charge pipe and move the engine harness out of the way. It took me a about an hour to swap out the restrictors for stock adaptor. The banjo bolt and restrictor are 17mm and I was able to wiggle a rachet and short socket on the left side. Keep in mind there should be two aluminum or copper washers per side that are on either side of the banjo fitting.

I am going to put the adaptors back in after I open them up from 2.5mm to 4mm (actually 5/32 or 3.96mm) which will still give some of the benefits of a restrictor without being so dramatic. My oil pressure is a little low when it gets warm (190-200*). It's about 10psi/1000rpm, but I would prefer it be closer to 12psi/1000rpm.

The restrictors can be visually identified by a groove that is cut radially around the flats of the adaptor. See the link.

Untitled Document

Good luck.
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John- I blame and thank the longhood boys of Austin
-84 911 Carrera w/ 930 t/p,efi'd,dizzy free,HFS turbo, 78 930 RoW no option sunroof coupe, 64 Corvette roadster, 71 911T, 73 911E, 67 Bronco survivor. 71 FJ40, 95 M3 (for sale)
"Illegitimi non carborundum"

Last edited by sundevil64; 11-06-2011 at 06:14 PM..
Old 11-06-2011, 06:10 PM
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