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Tomorrow may be my last drive of the year, snow is coming soon.
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914 6 Turbo twinplug 3.12
87 924S
Lexus SC400
Lexus LS400
Old 11-15-2011, 04:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
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WOW , nice car
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1986 944 turbo -first car
1997 993 Cab 6 speed-sold
1992 964 C2 turbo
SOLD, 911GT ,CIS, 428 fwhp 450 trq, Carrillo rods, 964 cams, TT retainers,7.5 comp 1.1 bar boost 320 ml black fuel head 009 injectors, 044 pumps, 60-1 T4/T3 dual scroll turbo
Old 11-15-2011, 05:28 PM
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Awesome car!

Thanks all. BTW, if one were to eventually go into the motor to lower C/R, what C/R do you guys recommend for ~1.0bar boost? 8.0:1? 7.5:1?

What's the best way to lower the CR? Aftermaret JE pistons slipped into the 95mm cylinders? OR could one slip in thicker cylinder base gaskets to drop the C/R from 8.5:1 to ~8.0:1?

My mate is talking EFI conversion using a Carrera manifold and programmable ECU, with intercooling of course
Old 11-15-2011, 08:27 PM
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I installed 97mm pistons and cylinders from a 3.3, and a 86 euro fuel distributor and intake, upgraded the fuel pump to a Bosch 44, added a 930 oil pump and twinplugged the heads, i had Supertec convert my SC distributor to 12 plug. it works well, if your looking for perfection i would go the EFI approach, my way was simpler cheaper and easier for me to do myself.
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914 6 Turbo twinplug 3.12
87 924S
Lexus SC400
Lexus LS400
Old 11-16-2011, 05:19 AM
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Twin PLug

HI Chap,
Do you remember what the damage was for the converted distributor? Does Henry still do that? I though I may have heard he "sold" that part of the business?

Do you have pics of the set up? I am curious to see what else is needed besides the distributor.
Thanks.
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Jeremy C.
Why's he calling me meat? I'm the one driving a Porsche. (Bull Durham)
----Nothing is far away in this car!----
-1978 911 SC TURBO, Minerva Blue Targa 965 update.
-2008 550i M-Sport
Old 11-16-2011, 07:08 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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We handle those conversions as well. Not inexpensive if good bearings are used. They can be set up to use one or two MSD units with dual coils.

Least expensive way to turbo and SC engine is to use 930 CIS and Exhaust system. Likely the least problematic as well.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-16-2011, 08:55 AM
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I am pretty sure it is a Burns Bro setup, i had the 2nd Generation bearings and support done on mine i think it was around 1,500. Outside of the Distributor just coils, wires and i used a single pigtailed MSD. My car has always started great and the engine runs as well as i would like it, outside of the over rich condition i have on initial boost once i am over the lag i hold on for life and shift as fast as i can to keep it from bouncing off the 7000 rpm rev limiter. I have short gears in the transmission.
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914 6 Turbo twinplug 3.12
87 924S
Lexus SC400
Lexus LS400
Old 11-16-2011, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamchappy View Post
I installed 97mm pistons and cylinders from a 3.3, and a 86 euro fuel distributor and intake, upgraded the fuel pump to a Bosch 44, added a 930 oil pump and twinplugged the heads, i had Supertec convert my SC distributor to 12 plug. it works well, if your looking for perfection i would go the EFI approach, my way was simpler cheaper and easier for me to do myself.
Nice! What displacement and CR do you end up with if you use 97mm 930 P&C's with the 70.4mm stroke of the SC motor?

Also, would a carrera intake manifold bolt right on?

I think initially we will do a cheap bolt on using GSF 930 headers and a T3/T4E turbo running 0.5bar. Then we will decompress the motor further, add carrera intake, ARP fasteners, intercooler, and aftermarket ECU. Aiming for 1bar boost.

Last edited by 911TT33; 11-16-2011 at 12:33 PM..
Old 11-16-2011, 12:29 PM
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I believe around 7.0:1 but im not totally sure. Displacement 3.12 makes for a very free spinning engine. I did put performance valve springs in it but i have set the rev limiter to 7000, the engine would love to spin higher. I used the stock 3 liter rods and had Supertec do the offset rod bushing modification on them which makes for a longer stroke.
Talk to Henry at Supertec about the 3.12 engine he can fill you in on the mysterious and powerful nature of this configuration....I sure like it.......
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914 6 Turbo twinplug 3.12
87 924S
Lexus SC400
Lexus LS400
Old 11-16-2011, 01:08 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Porsche actually produced a few 3.12L engines, a friend of mine has one in his early 911. Really nice reving engine.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-16-2011, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by iamchappy View Post
I believe around 7.0:1 but im not totally sure. Displacement 3.12 makes for a very free spinning engine. I did put performance valve springs in it but i have set the rev limiter to 7000, the engine would love to spin higher. I used the stock 3 liter rods and had Supertec do the offset rod bushing modification on them which makes for a longer stroke.
Talk to Henry at Supertec about the 3.12 engine he can fill you in on the mysterious and powerful nature of this configuration....I sure like it.......
Very cool!

What mods are needed to slip in the 97mm 930 P&C's?

The small end of the stock SC rods need modified for the 930 pistons?

Any cylinder head mods needed to make sure the cylinders mate up to the heads properly, or is it simply a bolt-in affair?

I do like the idea of maintaining the stock 8.5:1 C/R, but would it support 0.8 - 1.0bar of boost (with EFI, intercooling and aftermarket engine management)?
Old 11-16-2011, 03:19 PM
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You have to modify the rods to get them to work. To keep the higher c/r and higher boost you strongly need to consider twin plug and h2o/meoh inj.
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Jeremy C.
Why's he calling me meat? I'm the one driving a Porsche. (Bull Durham)
----Nothing is far away in this car!----
-1978 911 SC TURBO, Minerva Blue Targa 965 update.
-2008 550i M-Sport
Old 11-16-2011, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jcc911 View Post
You have to modify the rods to get them to work. To keep the higher c/r and higher boost you strongly need to consider twin plug and h2o/meoh inj.
Ok, thanks. I think we will look into getting the stock pistons machined down to 8.0:1 if there's enough meat on the piston crowns. I know this is commonly done on the 964 pistons, so will see if it's possible with the SC pistons. With EFI and intercooling, we should be good to run 1.0bar safely

If not possible, then will source some good used 930 P&Cs and slip those in instead, for 3.12L capacity.
Old 11-16-2011, 06:16 PM
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Since opinions are free on this board, let me offer you an alternative... (please don't take offense, just something to consider).
If the motor currently runs, why not sell the motor and tranny to someone that needs a 3.2 and just buy a 930 power train that needs some love. You are probably talking about a $2K difference... which you will more than spend when trying to make the 3.2 enjoy positive pressure.
In my experience, the MAJOR advantage of putting positive pressure into a NA motor is to keep the low end grunt. If you swap to a turbo style lower compression you are negating any advantage.
Just a thought... and it was free
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Old 11-16-2011, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSPTurtle View Post
Since opinions are free on this board, let me offer you an alternative... (please don't take offense, just something to consider).
If the motor currently runs, why not sell the motor and tranny to someone that needs a 3.2 and just buy a 930 power train that needs some love. You are probably talking about a $2K difference... which you will more than spend when trying to make the 3.2 enjoy positive pressure.
In my experience, the MAJOR advantage of putting positive pressure into a NA motor is to keep the low end grunt. If you swap to a turbo style lower compression you are negating any advantage.
Just a thought... and it was free
This is a 3.0 SC motor, not a 3.2

You have a good point, however, my friend wants to do this in phases.

Phase 1
Bolt on low boost turbo setup running 0.5 bar on stock motor.

Phase 2
EFI conversion using carrera manifold and aftermarket ECU.

Phase 3
Decompress the motor and run a bit more boost. Either slip in 930 barrels or machine SC pistons down, and fit arp fasteners.

Note: phase 1 & 2 may be reversed. EFI first, then low boost setup.

If he went with a 930 motor, that's close to $12k alone, then he'd have to do the EFI conversion, which would be another $5-6k.
Old 11-16-2011, 08:20 PM
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I bought my 930 engine for no where near 12k. Those engines are similar priced to good na 3.2 or clapped 3.6 engines with a small premium. They're out there.
Old 11-16-2011, 10:03 PM
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And they're not hard to swap over either when you consider he already had a cis car.
Old 11-16-2011, 10:04 PM
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