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Food for Thought on Turbocharging

I am a big fan of turbocharging and I think it will be a big part of automobile's future. I'm not sure if anyone has seen the technology that's highlighted in the following:

http://www.efi101.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=39652&sid=5e606b583ed1a89cbe40b3ae266aa805

This was technology developed in the old 1.5L turbo F1 era, it continues to be used by all World Championship Rally cars today. To understand this technology, think about what happens when you put your hand over a vacuum cleaner hose, what do you hear?

I thought you guys would get a kick out of this.

Mac
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Last edited by matsuzaka; 11-20-2011 at 06:05 AM..
Old 11-20-2011, 05:29 AM
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I got a 404 error from the link.

I'm assuming you are talking about the (forgot name of it) retarding of timing, dumping lots of fuel to explode the turbo to boost at idle?

It will kill a turbo in no time.
Old 11-20-2011, 05:43 AM
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Sorry, I fixed it.
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Old 11-20-2011, 06:05 AM
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Hmm, interesting. Gonna read when I have more time.

Thanks for posting.
Old 11-20-2011, 01:17 PM
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I'm more interested in that carbon fiber turbo housing, wow!
As for the turbo butterfly valve I don't think that is a good idea on a street car. Race cars don't expect their equipment to last long.
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Old 11-20-2011, 01:40 PM
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Brian, you are absolutely correct. This is not something that would be applicable for a street car, I would think it would suck in some oil when it's activated. And I agree that the CF housing is very cool.

It's interesting to learn about racing technology, this probably eliminates most of the throttle lag associated with relatively large turbos. Imagine the quick throttle response required in rally cars.

I saw this a while ago, I figured this forum could appreciate this. Plus, the pictures of the Renault engines are amazing.
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Last edited by matsuzaka; 11-20-2011 at 06:26 PM..
Old 11-20-2011, 06:20 PM
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The tremendous workmanship is obvious on the Renault engine but also notice the following:

-The size of the compressor vs the hot side of the turbos ( necessitating this system)

-Size of the intercoolers

-Exaust pipe size off of the waste gate

-Use of MFI

Over 1000 hp out of a 1.5L, crazy!
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Old 11-20-2011, 07:06 PM
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Ok, I've read the forum and am starting to read the patent.

I am getting excited like a little schoolgirl trying to think how I am going to fit this on my turbo!

This sounds so promising.

Luckily, I have access to a Bridgeport and a lathe if need be.

Hmmmmm..............twin-scroll turbine with throttlebody controlled compressor inlet.................near instant boost from idle?



???
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Old 11-22-2011, 09:40 AM
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this was posted a few months ago. I found it very interesting.

In my business we deal with mostly drag racers. One of the things they are now doing is moving the throttle body farther from the engine - closer to the intercooler. This creates more intake plenum volume and also reduces turbo response... I had a crazy thought to relocate my TB to the inlet of the intercooler. This would now make the intercooler part of the intake manifold, not sure what the result would be though.
Old 11-22-2011, 10:04 AM
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now that I think of it, the early Chrysler 2.2 Turbo motors located the TB just in front of the compressor inlet. The engine was not intercooler but I would love to hear the thought process on that.
Old 11-22-2011, 10:06 AM
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I think these cars were not using the throttle plate on the turbo as the primary throttle. I think it works in conjunction with the engine's throttle.
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Old 11-22-2011, 04:56 PM
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Yes. Read the patent, it explains in depth.
Old 11-22-2011, 05:47 PM
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Tippy,

I'm thinking a mild application of this kind of system might work okay on a street car. I don't know about your 930 but my car could use some of that increased throttle response.

Mac
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Old 11-23-2011, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matsuzaka View Post
Tippy,

I'm thinking a mild application of this kind of system might work okay on a street car. I don't know about your 930 but my car could use some of that increased throttle response.

Mac
Mac, my car is not a 930 but a Carrera 3.2 (3.4) with a turbo added by Protomotive.

I don't see boost until 5500RPM in first gear, so anything like this would help.

The biggest obstacle I see is getting the TB in front of the inlet to open with boost output and not throttle position. It will do no good if it goes wide open right when you stomp the throttle. That will take a little bit of engineering to overcome.

As far as my compressor seal, it is shot already. What is a little more oil gonna hurt?
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Cory - turbo'd '87 C3.2 Guards/Blk, 3.4, 7.5:1 CR P & C's, soon to be 993SS cams and GSXR 750 ITB's fed by 964 intake, Borg-Warner S366 turbo @ 1.4 bar, Treadstone full bay IC, TiAL F46 WG, HKS 1 1/2" BOV, twin 044 pumps, MegaSquirt 2 (v3.57 board) w/EDIS, Tramont wheels (285's rr, 225's frt), Big Reds frt, 993 rr., tower brace, MOMO wheel
Old 11-23-2011, 06:01 AM
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I imagine it would be difficult to figure out how, when and how much to apply the DPV.

Yea, mine boosts much earlier than 5500. T60 is fairly big. I've got a K27-7006, it has good power to red line, although, peak power and torque are around 4200, I think, so it's a bit weak at lower revs. If you take it to red line in a gear, it's good to go in the next one.
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Old 11-23-2011, 08:29 AM
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just for conversation. here is a datalog of my car in 1st gear



Old 11-23-2011, 09:03 AM
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:17 AM
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That log is from a rolling start on the street.

for reference I can produce 6 psi of boost at 2000rpm when the rpm is held steady on the dyno. not gonna happen on the street though
Old 11-23-2011, 09:20 AM
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Show off!
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Cory - turbo'd '87 C3.2 Guards/Blk, 3.4, 7.5:1 CR P & C's, soon to be 993SS cams and GSXR 750 ITB's fed by 964 intake, Borg-Warner S366 turbo @ 1.4 bar, Treadstone full bay IC, TiAL F46 WG, HKS 1 1/2" BOV, twin 044 pumps, MegaSquirt 2 (v3.57 board) w/EDIS, Tramont wheels (285's rr, 225's frt), Big Reds frt, 993 rr., tower brace, MOMO wheel
Old 11-23-2011, 09:46 AM
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Spoke with some of my turbo friends and one brought up the idea of the exhaust brake from diesels. Those are going to be made for the long haul.

http://www.pacbrake.com/uploads/images/IMAGES_NEW/_AUTOMOTIVE/PRXB_2.jpg
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Cory - turbo'd '87 C3.2 Guards/Blk, 3.4, 7.5:1 CR P & C's, soon to be 993SS cams and GSXR 750 ITB's fed by 964 intake, Borg-Warner S366 turbo @ 1.4 bar, Treadstone full bay IC, TiAL F46 WG, HKS 1 1/2" BOV, twin 044 pumps, MegaSquirt 2 (v3.57 board) w/EDIS, Tramont wheels (285's rr, 225's frt), Big Reds frt, 993 rr., tower brace, MOMO wheel

Last edited by Tippy; 11-23-2011 at 09:53 AM..
Old 11-23-2011, 09:51 AM
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