Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Technical BBS > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 4 votes, 3.25 average.
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
tops911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montana
Posts: 544
I had to use the 928 wire on my 1982.
It is interesting that some cars have the wire with the connector and some use one piece. I had an SC that used the short wire with a connector. I thought maybe it was a Turbo thing.
__________________
1982 930, K-27, BL adj. WUR, Rarlyl8 Headers and Hooligan muffler, MSD 6, 22 and 30mm torsion bars, poly bronze bushings 30mm raised spindles and custom valved Bilstein shocks (by Elephant Racing), monoballs front and rear (by Rennline), Alton 17" Fuchs, Fred Cook fuse panel
Old 11-23-2012, 06:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #421 (permalink)
Registered User
 
jsveb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Norseman territory
Posts: 2,740
Garage
Brian, it is tight in there, but I hope you can use it - I have emailed a picture to your rarly... Address

Regards
__________________
Jesper
Carrera 3.0 1975
930 1978 OEM Matte Schwartz, ANDIAL IC, BL WUR, SC cams. LMA-3 w. XD-16 and CP transducer
www.stauningwhisky.dk
Old 11-23-2012, 07:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #422 (permalink)
Registered User
 
tops911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montana
Posts: 544
Brian the green wire is a coax cable, I always wondered if a person could get by with regular wire, but figured Porsche used coax for a reason. I left the old wire in the harness and just routed the new wire to the connector to the CDI.
I guess some people put a connector in the old wire and use the short wire you have. But mine had hot spots all along the wire so I just replaced the entire thing.
If you search the BBS there are some good write-ups on the "green" wire, of particular note is that if you reverse the 2 wires in the green wire when hooking it up to the CDI box it'll lead to some running issues, I think crazy high idle but don't quote me on that. There is at least one guy who made their own "green wire" using a better coax cable.
Good luck, Frank
__________________
1982 930, K-27, BL adj. WUR, Rarlyl8 Headers and Hooligan muffler, MSD 6, 22 and 30mm torsion bars, poly bronze bushings 30mm raised spindles and custom valved Bilstein shocks (by Elephant Racing), monoballs front and rear (by Rennline), Alton 17" Fuchs, Fred Cook fuse panel
Old 11-23-2012, 07:12 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #423 (permalink)
Registered User
 
tadman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 309
Garage
green ignition wire

Brian, ignition green wires have a wire shield between the outter green cover and the green core cover wire. I have tried to find this type wire and had no luck but I have some extra of the old stuff still I think. But you can splice it you just need to carefully cut the outter cover and unwined some of the wire shield enough to twist and go into butt connector and do another for inner core so you end up with two wires spliced. Have done this many times no problem. Problem is the connector on distributor side can't fix or find that connector but you can by the other side which is same as connectors for WUR ,etc....
Old 11-23-2012, 07:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #424 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,129
I think any high temp single conductor coax wire would work. Someone posted a link to some a while back. If you've ever made guitar cords it's the same as that just with high temp wire insulation.

The distributors ignition trigger signal is a square wave and in the proper center and outer sheild wire polarity the CDI ignition fires when the square wave drops. If the wire polarity is reversed improperly the ignition will fire when the square wave rises and that causes an improper advance in the timing which is first noticeable as the idle speed raises.
Old 11-23-2012, 07:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #425 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,255
Garage
The only thing left in the ignition system that I have not changed out is the green wire, plug wires, and ignition switch. At this point I really don't think it is the plug wires. The green wire is corroded pretty bad so is the focus for now. I hope after all this the problem is not in the ignition switch. If replacing the green wire doesn't cure the issue I'll jump the switch.

So this mystery wire is a coax. Interesting. I may unwind it and splice into the harness, unfortunately that means using some of the existing wire. Going direct to the box may be a better idea.

I knew what I was getting into when I bought this car. So far I don't have a lot of cash in the parts/repairs. It'll get sorted out and it will (slowly) become my daily driver. It's a really cool car that deserves a second lease on life. All this DIY troubleshooting also helps me with the fuel system side of our business as many times electrical issues are blamed on fuel and vice versa. When you're working with dilapidated fuel and ignition systems it gets tough to tease out the root of the problems.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-23-2012, 08:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #426 (permalink)
7.0:1 > 11.3:1
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,816
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Ran perfectly for a couple minutes then very subtly the hesitations returned. Once fully warm the bucking began. Boosted it and the bucking became horrible.
The above quote is from Oct 28. Brian, I'm wondering why it is fine when cold but then "subtly the hesitations returned". This would imply something that deteriorates as it warms up, either due to engine heat, or electrical current/heat.

Perhaps the ignition relay (the delay relay) has dirty contacts, CDI box gradually failing, coil gradually failing... perhaps you've already swapped these out.

edit: I've cut and spliced the green coax wire in a somewhat crude fashion and never had any problem.

edit again: did you remove all the aftermarket alarm you mentioned early on. Those installers likely cut a relay into your ignition power circuit.

Last edited by Jim2; 11-23-2012 at 09:06 PM..
Old 11-23-2012, 09:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #427 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,255
Garage
Yes the problem started out as a progression from cold to warm and full blown after boosting. It now is running rough by the time the engine settles out after starting cold.

No the alarm crap is still in place. It was scheduled to be removed at the shop when this problem began so didn't make it. The plan was to fix this problem then drive it over to the shop. If I can't get it fixed soon we'll drag it over to the shop, pull all the alarm wires and fix the ignition problem. Hopefully we can identify the culprit first.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8

Last edited by RarlyL8; 11-24-2012 at 07:37 AM..
Old 11-24-2012, 07:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #428 (permalink)
Registered User
 
tadman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 309
Garage
Brian when you took out the distributor did it have alot of shaft play? Mine did and when I took it apart full of rust and severe wear into the distrbutor housing base you can see in pic, after shiming , cleaning up distributor it ran good.




Old 11-24-2012, 07:59 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #429 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,255
Garage
Yes the old dizzy has a lot of shaft play. I replaced it with a newly rebuilt unit only to see no change. I hope to have time today to look at changing out that green wire. I may have a WUR connector laying around that could be spliced unto the existing wire. The connection on that old green wire looks pretty bad.

All the parts that have been replaced need to be as they really look bad. Still amaized that this car ran pretty good when I first got it, right around last Thanksgiving.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-24-2012, 11:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #430 (permalink)
Registered User
 
jsveb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Norseman territory
Posts: 2,740
Garage
Just a long shot...

Not ignition, but. Have you checked the flow of the injectors? What if something has come loose and is clocking up something in the FH or injectors. This could change as the CP "warms up" and during boost enrichment.

Btw, did you get my picture?

I am also still struggling with my cis.

Good luck.
Old 11-24-2012, 11:59 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #431 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,255
Garage
Got the picture thank you!
I wish my green line had a connector like that, this story might be over if that were the case.

I have thought about the fuel system and set up the wide band to monitor it during this event. AFR's go rich when the bucking starts, which makes since if the ignition is cutting out. The WUR is freshly rebuilt and adjustable, it was adjusted spot-on before all the drama started. Car still starts up instantly when cold. I've got a freshly rebuilt fuel head on the shelf but did not want to install that until after this problem is solved. Also have a rebuilt and calibrated air metering assembly waiting.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-24-2012, 02:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #432 (permalink)
7.0:1 > 11.3:1
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,816
Garage
Have you exchanged coil and primary plug wire - the one from the coil to the dist cap?
Old 11-24-2012, 02:53 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #433 (permalink)
Registered User
 
jsveb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Norseman territory
Posts: 2,740
Garage
As I don't know exactly what you are experiencing. My suggestions might be out in the woods, but...

Is the AFR going "constantly" lean when it happens, or is it more intermittent?

Have you tried raising the WCP - even if you think itwill go too high, just to see how it behaves? It would be a simple test.
__________________
Jesper
Carrera 3.0 1975
930 1978 OEM Matte Schwartz, ANDIAL IC, BL WUR, SC cams. LMA-3 w. XD-16 and CP transducer
www.stauningwhisky.dk
Old 11-24-2012, 03:12 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #434 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,255
Garage
Yes I have changed coil, coil wire, CDI, cap, rotor, distributor.
AFR's go nutty but consistantly low when the bucking starts. Yes I checked the fuel system first when the problem started and all was in spec. The control pressures have been adjusted on the high side of spec to compensate for a weak rear pump that is showing system pressure on the low side of spec. I plan to change out the rear pump if I ever get that elusive 18m/16m fitting.
Thank you all for the help and ideas, we WILL get this solved. I'm planning to drag the car over to the shop soon as my time for this has expired, gotta move on.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-24-2012, 08:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #435 (permalink)
Registered User
 
klefroid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 677
Garage
Hi Brian,

I had about the same issue. I did not read all the post but most.
I had to change ignition wires to fix the problem.
To me it doesn't look like a fuel problem... But i'm not the best, just trying to help thinking.
If I was going in boost the same thing happend... cold start was also perfect

Good luck
Old 11-25-2012, 12:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #436 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,255
Garage
I've got a new set of wires but have not changed them yet. The sound and feel of the bad running condition is a complete engine miss, not just one or two cylinders. The entire engine cuts out for a split second. The plug wires ARE in bad shape like everything else so they will be changed out even if the problem is found first and not related to plugwires.

I forgot spark plugs on that list, they were changed about a month before the problem started.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-25-2012, 02:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #437 (permalink)
Registered User
 
klefroid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 677
Garage
Was the same for me,I tought that is was not possible that tose wires could cause my problem but they did ... If you have them changed at least you know you have to look futher. it's an easy task anyhow ... :-) If you ask power from your engine and your spark is to weak then this can cause te problem. specialy from the main wire in the middle.
If it was a sparkplug it would be differend idd
Old 11-25-2012, 03:34 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #438 (permalink)
Registered User
 
boostfix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 255
Brian,

Check out post #10 on this link:
Ignition Noise with key out?

The ignition delay relay could also fail in mode where it is cutting out the ignition when the car is in run mode. Perhaps your relay is failing opposite to the way mine did?

Good luck....Dan
__________________
Dan
88 930 blk/gry
Old 11-25-2012, 05:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #439 (permalink)
Turbofrog
 
smurfbus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,358
Just read the last page. You said it went rich when acting up and thought it would do that if ignition cuts. IMO misfires show as lean as there is more unburned air.

If your rear pump seems to be weak are your sure the rear pump relay is Ok? If the relay warms up and then cuts power to the rear pump it also cuts power to the WUR and goes start up rich which could be your problem. The engine has not been able to heatsoak the WUR as its colder out!
__________________
************************************************** *******************************
79 930: HX40S#16, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, True split BB, 2*turbosmart38,
99 Audi S4: RS4 engine/E85/K24brids, KW3, Movit+RS6 discs
Old 11-26-2012, 11:57 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #440 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:09 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2016 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.