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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Well I've been able to enjoy the car some as it now runs well again and doesn't lock me out
Spring is around the corner so it's time to start thinkin' mods. We need to take the engine out to fix the oil leaks so while we're at it that would be a good time to install a big boy clutch package. I don't see the engine coming out again as the mods will be my bolt-on parts so this is the time to get that done. God only knows what the stock clutch looks like.
This is the Kennedy Engineering Stage I package; any of you guys used it?


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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-19-2013, 07:57 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #481 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Well I've been able to enjoy the car some as it now runs well again and doesn't lock me out
Spring is around the corner so it's time to start thinkin' mods. We need to take the engine out to fix the oil leaks so while we're at it that would be a good time to install a big boy clutch package. I don't see the engine coming out again as the mods will be my bolt-on parts so this is the time to get that done. God only knows what the stock clutch looks like.
This is the Kennedy Engineering Stage I package; any of you guys used it?


I purchased a stage 1 for my my build last year and had to send it back as the PP was defective. I had Kennedy replace it with a Stage 2, that replacement was also defective. I ordered the heavy duty Sachs unit with the release bearing extension and ring gear extension. It works great! To bad the motor and tranny came out 2 times it didn't need to.
I installed a KEP in a previous 930 application and didn't have any problems back then, but that was 10+ years ago. Not sure what changed with KEP?
Old 02-19-2013, 08:36 PM
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I've heard good things about them from a bunch of people.
For a stock motor or one around 400hp the stage one is the usual choice and a spring center sachs disc is a nice with it for street driving. They are around 12 pounds lighter than the stock sachs steel pressure plate so the motor revs quicker.

Having said all that I havn't actually driven a car with one.
I bought a used KEP stage one in good shape around 4 years ago but havn't had the motor out to put it in and try it out.

I really like the smoothness and easy modulation of the sachs clutch and spring center disc thats in my car from the previous owner but would like the lighter KEP better I think.
I always match rev double clutch on downshifts because I learned that way many years ago and a lighter clutch assembly for quicker rev blips during downshifts would be nice.

I don't recognize the clutch disc in your picture. It may be more aggresive and more difficult to slip smoothly when you want to than a sachs spring center disc.. but I don't know.
Old 02-19-2013, 09:18 PM
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I have a KEP stage 1 pressure plate, organic disc and fidanza aluminum flywheel since a few 1000km's.
Working fine, slightly higher pedal force, no issues so far.

Disc is from a spec kit I once bought from Lindsey racing





Hmmm, no pic of PP at the moment, but looks like every KEP
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:13 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Thanks for the feedback. I expected the clutch to have springs but istead has these black objects; what is that? I haven't changed a clutch in forever and don't have time to do this one either so don't know mutch about it.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-20-2013, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Thanks for the feedback. I expected the clutch to have springs but istead has these black objects; what is that? I haven't changed a clutch in forever and don't have time to do this one either so don't know mutch about it.

Looks like it's made of rubber. I would not use it. They will disintegrate over time.
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Thanks for the feedback. I expected the clutch to have springs but istead has these black objects; what is that? I haven't changed a clutch in forever and don't have time to do this one either so don't know mutch about it.
It's difficult to tell as the picture gets very fuzzy when enlarged but that looks to me like a black cover-plate over the hub and springs of the clutch . . .
Old 02-20-2013, 06:42 AM
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Clutch

Yup, black rubber was the factory clutch. Good riddance! may work for girls, but mine barely lasted my first autocross, so like I say good riddance.
LOVE THE CAR BRIAN!
BTW love your exhaust, the sound of my turbo spooling turns heads, and everyone tells me how sick the car sounds at idle!
db
Old 02-20-2013, 09:52 AM
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^ That's not the factory clutch pictured in post #481 (the one Brian was asking about) . . .
Old 02-20-2013, 09:56 AM
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KEP stage 1

I installed the stage 1 last year and haven't been able to adjust it to my liking. All of the action is with in 1 inch from the floor. Some have suggested that adjustments/modificiations to the linkage arm at the omega spring are needed. Philip
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:05 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Spoke with the clutch guy today and he tells me the black things are covers on the springs that keep them protected. Never seen that before.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-21-2013, 07:28 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #491 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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KEP Clutch

Work is always slow on this car as it comes last.

We yanked the engine to fix a multitude of oil leaks and take a better look at what we have. Yes it is/was as bad as expected but nothing that can't be fixed.

While the engine was out Wayne pressure washed it and the tranny. And while the tranny was out we put in the new KEP Stage 1 clutch package. The old clutch worked fine but it was an unknown and a wear item so a "while you're in there" deal. Let me say a few words about the KEP Stage 1 Clutch.

I HATE IT

Not only do I hate it but I cannot wait to pull it out. At first it shook so violently that we thought something had come apart in the tranny. A few miles later it settled down to just chattering when releasing. I can't stand it. Not only does it chatter but the clutch is heavy as hell! You have to be a linebacker to drive this thing. No way in hell my wife could begin to drive it (maybe not so bad??)
Anyway that nightmare is coming out soon as I get another free day.

And then we took the ride of shame. After driving the car several times to wear in the clutch I pulled into a gas station to fill up. After giving a kidney for the tank of 93 octane the car wouldn't start.
Then it began to rain.
And I had only basic tools.
Once back at the garage I tested a few things and discovered a bad fuse. Yes a bad fuse. Not a blown fuse but one that would not conduct electricity. I had previously cleaned all the terminals but did not change the "good" fuses. Well apparently 30 year old fuses can metal degrade to the point that they no longer conduct enough juice to run the fuel pumps. Swapped in a brand new fuse and back on the (chattery clutch) road.
Ah the adventure that is old cars.

Now for something up-beat. I swapped tailpipes from the 934 Look to the GT3 Look. I like them both.



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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 05-11-2013, 09:49 PM
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It's very possible that if you used a stock spring center Sachs clutch disc instead of the one pictured above it wouldn't chatter.

For a street car I always heard the stage one KEP works smoothly when used with the Sachs disc and it is only a little stiffer to push the pedal down than the stock Sachs clutch.
I havn't installed the one I have because my Sachs clutch works so nice and the motor runs so good so I don't actually know. Just wish the Sachs pressure plate was lighter weight so the CIS motor could rev a little faster in nuetral.

Stage 2 KEP is more of a track/street clutch for EFI cars with plenty over 500HP. I have pressed one of those and it does have a stiff pedal for a street car, but thats just personal opinion.
Old 05-11-2013, 10:30 PM
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Brian, both exhaust tips do look good, however I am partial to the 934 Look (for obvious reasons)! And by the way, I think you need fatter/wider rear wheels and tires as those are looking kind of anorexic!
Old 05-11-2013, 11:01 PM
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Jim, the folks I bougt the clutch parts from listed this as a "Stage 1" kit with a 700HP rating. I am suspicious that I have a Stage 2 kit. The clutch chatters and is crazy heavy. Afrter driving the car I get in my truck and just about slam the clutch through the floor!!
This thing MUST come out. It has ruined the driving experience for me.
I have only used Sachs Sport Clutches in the past and love them. Same peddle stifness as stock and they hold 400HP. I'll be replacing this monster with a Sachs unit.

I can't decide which tailpipes I like best Ron. The 934 pipes are more quiet on boost as the waste gate noise exits out back behind you. It takes just a few minutes to change the tailpipes so I can go back and forth easy.

LOVE the short fat tires!! Really sets off the look I was after. That is the first thing folks comment on at a stoplight. We'll probably add our go-fast goodies next time the engine is out so these tires will be put to the test. No doubt in my mind they won't hold first or second when we're done.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 05-12-2013, 07:24 AM
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Brian, I replaced my clutch perfectly fine chutch "while I was in there" It was a stock rubber center hub type and replaced it with a Sachs spring center clutch kit and it works as smoothly as the stock one.
Old 05-12-2013, 07:29 AM
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Brian, my guess from here is you do have a stage 2 pressure plate from your description of it.
The Stage 1 KEP pressure plate is only rated to hold up to 550 HP with a fresh clutch disc.

If you measure the thickness of the spring fingers the throwout bearing pulls on with a 0-1" micrometer and call KEP @ (661) 272–1147 and tell them the thickness they can tell you if it's a stage one or stage two plate. The spring fingers on the stage two are thicker than the stage one. Home

I bought a used Stage one KEP I havn't installed yet on EBAY for $325 and I had no way of being sure it was advertised properly so I called KEP with that dimension and they confirmed it's the stage one.

Does your motor rev quicker in nuetral with this clutch?
Seems like it would because it's around 12 pounds lighter than the stock Sachs steel basket pressure plate.

Last edited by JFairman; 05-12-2013 at 08:11 AM..
Old 05-12-2013, 07:41 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Yes the engine revs quicker with this clutch and also falls quicker, which I don't like.
So it is the pressure plate that is causing the stiff peddle and the clutch that chatters?
Looks like I need to replace both which was not cheap. That sucks.
I'm going to need a clutch/PP that can handle 500WHP which is why I went KEP. Would rather go overkill on the clutch than run it to the edge of what it can handle. Given the alternative I'd rather replace clutches than live with this nasty device.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 05-12-2013, 09:48 AM
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I like the way it looks still nasty

FYI The hard clutch is from you getting old.

Kidding. Hope to see it one day.

Regards,
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:59 AM
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LOVE the short fat tires!! Really sets off the look I was after. That is the first thing folks comment on at a stoplight. We'll probably add our go-fast goodies next time the engine is out so these tires will be put to the test. No doubt in my mind they won't hold first or second when we're done.
I love them, too. I think the smaller diameter, "period correct" wheels, look much better than the larger diameter wheels that people put on these cars. But of course, I like the double D bumper tits and the Turbo wing (as opposed to a duck tail or tailess) on these things as well (so maybe I've got style "issues")?

Last edited by Ronnie's.930; 05-13-2013 at 09:10 AM..
Old 05-13-2013, 09:06 AM
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