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RL8,
Please post a pic of your new vent line plumbing when you get there.
Thanks.
Old 02-04-2014, 02:42 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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I cannot believe it took nearly 2 months to get this done, that's nuts.
Today there was a Porsche BBQ event that I really wanted to attend, but my car is still down. So instead of doing something fun for the first time in 2 months I crawled under the car. Man I miss working on the Red Rocket, you could eat off the engine case. This car is nasty! I cannot image any care or maintenance of any kind was given to this poor 930.
Anyway here are the pictures. Old turbo out, another old turbo in. Hopefully it will last for a bit till I am finished running tests. I put one of our tanks on it and routed the vent line up into the bumper then back down toward the ground. I don't need any more messes in the engine bay.
So far so good. Went for a drive then gave 'er a well deserved bath. Hope to drive a bit tomorrow between projects.





May need to swap that hose out for a black one.


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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 03-22-2014, 06:38 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #562 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadetree930 View Post
Use Vaseline to rejuvenate the rubber. No really, I mean it.

There is another thread on this very topic in the 911 forum. Its legit.

Sure there is...
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Old 03-23-2014, 07:02 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #563 (permalink)
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Quote:
I put one of our tanks on it and routed the vent line up into the bumper then back down toward the ground. I don't need any more messes in the engine bay.
That's exactly what i did with that same turbo oil tank. The last thing i want to happen is my turbo to blow and have all that hot oil flood my engine compartment or go into my air intake system. On the street it goes.
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Old 03-23-2014, 09:00 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Fuel Pump Issues

One step forward two steps back; I think they had cars like this in mind when they coined that expression, ha!

The lastest saga is I'm chasing a fuel pump issue. I pulled the WUR for a rebuild as it was taking too long to reach warm control pressure. Electricals were shot. Plugged it back in and the fuel pumps did not come on. Hmmmm. Long story short I ended up yanking out all the fuses, cleaning all the fuse holders and refreshing the wire ends.





You'll notice some of the fuses are aluminum. GET RID OF THEM. I replaced all with new copper fuses. The pumps run and the car starts and runs every time no problem.
Almost.
Now the relays and fuse are getting hot. Pulled the fuel filter just to be sure there is no drag on the pumps. The Mahle had a little resistance on the blow test but not bad enough to cause this. Anybody use the Hengst filters? Like 'em?
I'll look at the front pump next. Both pumps are relatively new but you never know.





Lastly, while I was under the car I snapped a pick af the brakes inside the 12x15 Fuch. If you've ever wondered how a 930 brake assembly fits inside a 15" wheel IT'S TIGHT!


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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 06-22-2014, 07:11 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Tank Screen and Fuel Pump R&R

Fuel filter wasn't the problem. There was a little bit of back pressure when blowing through but not enough to make the pumps work hard.

Next item to look at is the tank screen. This car sat most of it's life and was not maintained as it should have been so I expect to find garbage in the bottom of the fuel lank. If so it could plug up the screen and cause the pumps to draw more current resulting in the hot relays and fuse I am seeing.
This is a very easy job. If you've never done it before don't be afraid of it. It is messy but simple. Put a fan on or have the car in a well ventalated area (for obvoius reasons).

To empty the tank I pulled the fuel inlet line off the front pump and collected in a gas can.



Once empty you unscrew the plug. The plug has a large allen head fitting, you can make a tool using a 7/8 socket and cut off allen wrench.



Collect the rest of the gas in a pan. Not too much comes out.



This is what the screen looked like, some rust but not bad enough to cause the problem.



All cleaned up and ready to re-install.



Put gas back in the tank and fired 'er up. Problem unchanged. Pump still screams after a few minutes and the fuse/relay gets too hot to touch.

Looks like the pump is next to check. This pump is low mileage and not too old so I really didn't think it was the problem. Typically I would blame the 30 year old pump first. Everything needs checked on this old car so the pump is next.

I pulled the fuel feed line off the pump and stuck a large bolt in the rubber line to hold off another gas bath while I changed the pump. Here are the simple hand tools I used, not difficult at all.



Well that made progress, looks like the newer pump went bad. The old pump was installed and did not scream after a few minutes. The fuse got hot but the relay did not. There is still work to do as I don't want anything getting hot. It looks like now we can concentrate on wiring. I may relace this fuse block.

Two steps forward and only one step back. Ha!
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8

Last edited by RarlyL8; 06-29-2014 at 12:20 PM..
Old 06-29-2014, 12:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #566 (permalink)
 
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The one on the left looks like the front pump that was in my car when I bought it. It's made in France, you can see that on the sticker on it. My guess is it's probably better quality than the new ones currently made in Czech Republic.

I wish I never took it out and sold it now. I've never been able to find a new 044 pump for the front that's as quiet as that one was, and I've tried 3 of them now.

The 044 I put in the rear has always been quiet. I guess I got a good one that time.
Old 06-29-2014, 02:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #567 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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It's not quiet anymore Jim, hehe. The Czech Republic unit which is very quiet went back in the car. I planned to get a -044 for the front so now is my chance. One of these days this engine is gonna go big so I need to prepare the subsystems.

What are you using for pump relays and fuse, stock or twin fuses and different relays?
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 06-29-2014, 06:52 PM
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I'm surprised to hear it's not quiet anymore. I have the shop receipt from the previous owner showing the year and mileage on the car when it was replaced new and it only had around 40,000 miles on it when I removed it and later on sold it to you.

My car has never sat undriven before I bought it in 2006 and the tank has no rust in it. When I took the tank out to clean and repaint it around 5 years ago (with brushed on smoke gray rustoleum enamel from Walmart) the filter in it was perfectly clean. I didn't have an allen wrench to fit the brass filter/fuel pickup on the bottom so I used an old bolt with a head that fit into it and turned the bolt shank with a pipe wrench to remove and replace it. Worked fine. I put hylomar on the o-ring when reinstalling it and it hasn't leaked.

Anyway, I use the stock red relays to turn on the fuel pumps but I ran two seperate 12 gauge cables from the battery to power them. I used two rubber blade fuse holders with the rubber covers from radio shack for the fuses. One for the front pump and one for the rear. I put a 20 amp fuse in each one.
Good luck with your fuel pumps and I wouldn't toss that pump. It was always quiet in my car and I bet it's still good for another car or situation.
Old 06-29-2014, 07:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #569 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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I'm going to take a closer look at the fuel pump wiring specifically and see what shakes out. No wires are burned or even discolored leading me to believe this is a new issue and something changed to make it happen. Once fixed the pump from France may be just fine.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 06-29-2014, 08:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #570 (permalink)
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Well 3 MONTHS later and maybe this wiring problem will go away.

After adding a dedicated circuit, relay, and fuse for the rear pump there was no change. The front fuse still got too hot to touch and the new rear relay also became too hot to touch. What the hell. The only thing the front and rear now have in common is the front daisy chain powers the rear relay now instead of the rear pump. I'm thinking there has to be a grounding issue with the front wiring.

SO to fix the (possible) ground issue I ran a ground wire from each (-) pole on each pump to the chassis. I then pulled the rear relay, stripped the harness, and found the 2 brown/red ground wires. These are daisy chained as well so it shouldn't matter which one I pick to ground. (Assumptions are stupid I know but I gotta keep moving). So I strip back one of the ground wires and solder in a leg then ground that leg to chassis.
This sonofa***** should be grounded now!




In the mean time I'm cussin the idiot that installed the Fort Knox alarm system in this car as there are freakin wires everywhere from when we cut the damned thing out. I'd like to shake his hand then grab it tight and repeatedly kick him in the nuts until he passes out. The ground lug next to the fuse panel had SEVEN grounded ring terminals mounted on it along with some goofy gizmo box that had a plug in connector inserted and a live wire feed we had previously cut out.




The relay plug just pushed out the back and you can pull it out a few inches. Wanted to add that for those that haven't had the pleasure of messing with their fuel pump relays yet.




After all my grounding overkill I jumped in the car and fired it up. You guessed it, no change. Within 5 minutes the front fuse was hot. Unbelievable.
There was a clue however. The pumps seemed to run a bit more rubust and smoothly and the hot spot on the fuse was siolated to the top lug and bridge. Time to bypass that fuse and eleminate it from the equasion.
I ran to the local AutoZOne and grabbed a 30A pigtail. Took out the new old style fuse and installed the pigtail.





Fired up the engine and went for a ride around the block. Got back popped the hood and could not believe what I felt ... nothing. The top fuse lug was cold to the touch.

I don't even know what to think about this situation. I cleaned EVERYTHING, put in new fuses, added dielectric grease, filed terminals, refreshed all the wire ends, and repared or replaced any questionalble wires I found.

What could be wrong with this fuse terninal?
Is it possible the fuse did not have enough contact with the copper holder and that caused resistance?
Could the terminal metal be compromised by age/time?
Also what is the deal with these copper bridge connectors?
What are they for and why do they connect to other fused circuits?





I guess I should be happy that it looks like the problem is solved but I'm simply worn down by it all. This took waaaaaay too much time and so much wasted effort. In the end I would have never seen this connection as a problem. I am no electrician which is why I posted this 3 stooges approach to troubleshooting wiring issues. Hopefully my folly will help one of you save some time.

Now to sleep on all this and clean up the wiring a bit more tomorrow. Will keep checking the fuse block for heat as I'm pretty gun shy now.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 09-27-2014, 07:22 PM
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Brian, those copper strips are merely buss connections. Porsche did that to save space in a crowded area. Imagine how worse it would be if you had 12 gauge wire connecting those points.

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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 09-28-2014, 04:50 AM
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One more thing......

Brian,
Is that lead (circled) ok? From the photo it looks like it has charred insulation?

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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 09-28-2014, 04:58 AM
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Many of the wires look their age and all need to be replaced in my opinion. Early on I removed every wire from the block pictured and either wire brushed the ends or, if there was enough wire, cut the ends off and stripped back to fresh wire. This car really needs the treatment given to the Red Rocket. We took that car down to the tub for a repaint and replaced everything. The original wiring harness was retained but any questionable wires were replaced before the harness when back in the car. I swore I would never do that again but this car deserves it.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 09-28-2014, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Many of the wires look their age and all need to be replaced in my opinion. Early on I removed every wire from the block pictured and either wire brushed the ends or, if there was enough wire, cut the ends off and stripped back to fresh wire. This car really needs the treatment given to the Red Rocket. We took that car down to the tub for a repaint and replaced everything. The original wiring harness was retained but any questionable wires were replaced before the harness when back in the car. I swore I would never do that again but this car deserves it.
When you buy new wire for your car make sure it's good quality. Most all of the wire you buy these days is made in China by the lowest bidder and the insulation and copper is not as good as what Porsche used years ago.
Forget about Radio Shack wire it's the lowest quality there is. Go online and search for the good stuff or buy it at a good marine hardware store if there are any in your area.
Old 09-28-2014, 09:00 AM
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This is by far the biggest headache with respect to electrical work on these cars. Getting good wire, the proper color, the proper gauge, with good weatherproof connectors and terminals etc is a project unto itself.



Quote:
bbcode_quote -->When you buy new wire for your car make sure it's good quality. Most all of the wire you buy these days is made in China by the lowest bidder and the insulation and copper is not as good as what Porsche used years ago.

Forget about Radio Shack wire it's the lowest quality there is. Go online and search for the good stuff or buy it at a good marine hardware store if there are any in your area.
Old 09-28-2014, 09:36 AM
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There used to be two good electrical supply stores in my area. They are both gone now.
The best quality wire and electrical stuff available locally here that I know of is at a good marine hardware store like Boat Owners Warehouse - Everything Marine!.
Being in southeast Florida those places are in good shape and well stocked. The relays, switches, and other electrical gadgets you see there are stainless steel, made in the USA, and excellent quality but not cheap.

The wire connectors are stainless steel or plated copper. They're made of thicker metal and not cheap thin gauge stamped out junk and they come with thick clear or colored heat shrink on the wire end.
They cost more but you get what you pay for.
Old 09-28-2014, 09:53 AM
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Good info, thank you.
You will notice the red relay in my photo has "Made In China" written right on it with a Porsche part number. I was NOT happy when I received that from our host. I hate Chinese garbage, cost you so much more in the long run and has ruined our economy, but that's another rant.

Well to test the fuse-only to see if that was the problem all along I disconnected the stand-alone relay for the rear pump so everything now runs through that one fuse as it used to. The fuse now gets warm but not hot like before. Looks like I need to do that dual fuse mod so many have done here. I'll read up on that as I would rather use the front fuse panel than the add-on that I had done during this adventure. There is enough extra wiring in this car already ...
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 09-28-2014, 02:02 PM
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I don't know if you'll find new Porsche relays made anywhere else than China these days.
Google Sunset Porsche Audi in Oregon and ask for Porsche parts and ask the guy in that dept what his 911 relays say now. They get stuff in from the Porsche factory warehouses in Germany every week and they have the lowest prices on factory Porsche parts you will find anywhere.

The Chinese red relays work OK though and China makes the best consumer grade electronics of anywhere these days.
For example, every consumer Windows PC computer you buy and every component in them has been made in China for a while now.
Old 09-28-2014, 04:08 PM
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Well I fired the gray ghost up and went for a long drive. Stopped frequently to check the fuse and relays which stayed warm but never got hot. Lugged the engine some to pull thown the juice and boosted some to fire up the alternator. She ran great. After about 20 miles of that I got some confidence back and hit the highway for some speed. I think the problem is solved. Now I'll find that great tech article someone wrote on adding the second fuse to the pannel and I'll get the mod done. I bought this car to drive, it sure ain't nice enough to live life as a garage queen!
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 09-28-2014, 05:19 PM
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