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3.2 tubo question

Hey Pelicans I am starting the hunt for parts to do a 3.2 turbo conversion on a 87 cab.
I would like to know the pros and cons of blowing threw the barn door or sucking threw the barn door.
Thanks joe d
Old 12-05-2011, 05:30 PM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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I have blow through.

I'd say blow through is better because boost will overcome the flow limitation (CFM) of the meter.

Blow through requires enrichment through raw fuel pressure for boost to meet fueling requirements.

Draw through requires "tricking" the AFM using resistors if I am not mistaken.

Ideally, you would scrap the AFM and go MAF. Then, your throttle response would greatly increase because the engine will not have to overcome the "barn door" and spring mechanism.
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Cory - turbo'd '87 C3.2 Guards/Blk, 3.4, 7.5:1 CR P & C's, soon to be 993SS cams and GSXR 750 ITB's fed by 964 intake, Borg-Warner S366 turbo @ 1.4 bar, Treadstone full bay IC, TiAL F46 WG, HKS 1 1/2" BOV, twin 044 pumps, MegaSquirt 2 (v3.57 board) w/EDIS, Tramont wheels (285's rr, 225's frt), Big Reds frt, 993 rr., tower brace, MOMO wheel
Old 12-05-2011, 06:17 PM
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Thank you for your quick reply and advice.
Joe D
Old 12-06-2011, 02:25 AM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeride9 View Post
Thank you for your quick reply and advice.
Joe D
No problem, maybe others have more to this.
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Cory - turbo'd '87 C3.2 Guards/Blk, 3.4, 7.5:1 CR P & C's, soon to be 993SS cams and GSXR 750 ITB's fed by 964 intake, Borg-Warner S366 turbo @ 1.4 bar, Treadstone full bay IC, TiAL F46 WG, HKS 1 1/2" BOV, twin 044 pumps, MegaSquirt 2 (v3.57 board) w/EDIS, Tramont wheels (285's rr, 225's frt), Big Reds frt, 993 rr., tower brace, MOMO wheel
Old 12-06-2011, 06:07 AM
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I use a blow through set up with no problems
Old 12-06-2011, 06:23 AM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Joe, you might to do a search because I remember when I first joined, there was a debate about this and IIRC, the blow through wasn't favorable.

I've had no problems with it though.
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Cory - turbo'd '87 C3.2 Guards/Blk, 3.4, 7.5:1 CR P & C's, soon to be 993SS cams and GSXR 750 ITB's fed by 964 intake, Borg-Warner S366 turbo @ 1.4 bar, Treadstone full bay IC, TiAL F46 WG, HKS 1 1/2" BOV, twin 044 pumps, MegaSquirt 2 (v3.57 board) w/EDIS, Tramont wheels (285's rr, 225's frt), Big Reds frt, 993 rr., tower brace, MOMO wheel
Old 12-06-2011, 10:14 AM
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Thanks again I will search the forum
Old 12-06-2011, 12:39 PM
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Joe, I have a blow through setup using a Protomotive chip and rising rate fuel pressure regulator. It works.
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Rick
1985 911 Targa Protomotive Stage II 911 Turbo,RarlyL8 center outlet muffler & waste gate dump,GT30R turbo,.8 bar spring,around 400 wheel hp
2013 Ford Cmax
2012 Ford F150 EcoBoost
Old 12-06-2011, 12:51 PM
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Hey Rick, how's things?!

Did you sort out your fueling issues?

I didn't know you were using a GT30?
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeride9 View Post
Hey Pelicans I am starting the hunt for parts to do a 3.2 turbo conversion on a 87 cab.
I would like to know the pros and cons of blowing threw the barn door or sucking threw the barn door.
Thanks joe d
Don't do either. The AFM sucks and you'll be replacing it every few months. It's just not built for high pressure boosted applications, and it's just a restrictive brick in the intake tract. Might be OK for a while at only 0.5bar tho.

Get rid of it completely with a hot-wire MAF or speed density system. There are cheap piggy-back ECU's out there which let you eliminate the AFM completely.

Last edited by 911TT33; 12-06-2011 at 04:09 PM..
Old 12-06-2011, 03:59 PM
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Hey Spence,

I have not had the time to mess with it, I have been traveling too much for work. It looks as though it will wait until spring. We fixed the miss under full throtle and boost but it is running a little rich.

911TT33 - what would you suggest for a piggy back ECU and MAF or speed density system?

Thanks,
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1985 911 Targa Protomotive Stage II 911 Turbo,RarlyL8 center outlet muffler & waste gate dump,GT30R turbo,.8 bar spring,around 400 wheel hp
2013 Ford Cmax
2012 Ford F150 EcoBoost
Old 12-06-2011, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Chip View Post
911TT33 - what would you suggest for a piggy back ECU and MAF or speed density system?

Thanks,
I've heard of an Apexi and map-ecu product being used extensively by the Supra boys to eliminate the OEM AFM. Apparently works great and converts to a speed density MAP based system. Wouldn't be hard to wire in and they apparently self-learn the output of the AFM under different load conditions. Then you just remove the AFM completely and take it to a dyno for fine tuning the fuel and ignition maps.

See here:

Apexi SAFC Air Flow Converter from AlamoMotorsports

Last edited by 911TT33; 12-06-2011 at 04:57 PM..
Old 12-06-2011, 04:50 PM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911TT33 View Post
Don't do either. The AFM sucks and you'll be replacing it every few months. It's just not built for high pressure boosted applications, and it's just a restrictive brick in the intake tract. Might be OK for a while at only 0.5bar tho.
My car has ran for like a decade blow-through without an issue. It always peaks @ 1.2 bar in 4th.
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Cory - turbo'd '87 C3.2 Guards/Blk, 3.4, 7.5:1 CR P & C's, soon to be 993SS cams and GSXR 750 ITB's fed by 964 intake, Borg-Warner S366 turbo @ 1.4 bar, Treadstone full bay IC, TiAL F46 WG, HKS 1 1/2" BOV, twin 044 pumps, MegaSquirt 2 (v3.57 board) w/EDIS, Tramont wheels (285's rr, 225's frt), Big Reds frt, 993 rr., tower brace, MOMO wheel
Old 12-06-2011, 06:52 PM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911TT33 View Post
I've heard of an Apexi and map-ecu product being used extensively by the Supra boys to eliminate the OEM AFM. Apparently works great and converts to a speed density MAP based system. Wouldn't be hard to wire in and they apparently self-learn the output of the AFM under different load conditions. Then you just remove the AFM completely and take it to a dyno for fine tuning the fuel and ignition maps.

See here:

Apexi SAFC Air Flow Converter from AlamoMotorsports
Very cool! I likey
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Cory - turbo'd '87 C3.2 Guards/Blk, 3.4, 7.5:1 CR P & C's, soon to be 993SS cams and GSXR 750 ITB's fed by 964 intake, Borg-Warner S366 turbo @ 1.4 bar, Treadstone full bay IC, TiAL F46 WG, HKS 1 1/2" BOV, twin 044 pumps, MegaSquirt 2 (v3.57 board) w/EDIS, Tramont wheels (285's rr, 225's frt), Big Reds frt, 993 rr., tower brace, MOMO wheel
Old 12-06-2011, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
My car has ran for like a decade blow-through without an issue. It always peaks @ 1.2 bar in 4th.
You have been lucky then. I went through 3 AFM's and I run about the same - 1.25 bar. The magnetic strip wears over months/years of abuse and it eventually causes idle and mixture issues due to incorrect resistance outputs back to the DME.

Either way, the barn door AFM is one restrictive piece of cr@p... sure it works, but it's robbing response and power I reckon.

Last edited by 911TT33; 12-06-2011 at 07:44 PM..
Old 12-06-2011, 07:42 PM
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will an afm from an 83 944 work on an 84 911? I have a spare 944 one but not one for my 911 and i'm pretty sure mines the factory one in the 911... Which may mean it's only a matter of time....
sorry to threadjack
Old 12-06-2011, 11:10 PM
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I believe they are interchangeable
Old 12-07-2011, 01:49 AM
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Another question for you guys. How are all of you suppling and returning the turbo oil? I am going to use the stock k2

And again thank you for all your replies!

Joe D
Old 12-07-2011, 02:55 AM
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Pelicans what waste gate and size are you using,and BOV?
Tanks Joe D
Old 12-07-2011, 03:12 AM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911TT33 View Post
You have been lucky then. I went through 3 AFM's and I run about the same - 1.25 bar. The magnetic strip wears over months/years of abuse and it eventually causes idle and mixture issues due to incorrect resistance outputs back to the DME.

Either way, the barn door AFM is one restrictive piece of cr@p... sure it works, but it's robbing response and power I reckon.
Hmmm.....in the inside of my AFM, the resistance track barely showed a wear path.

Yes! They totally take away throttle response. I wish I could swing converting to hotwire MAF!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Saenz View Post
will an afm from an 83 944 work on an 84 911? I have a spare 944 one but not one for my 911 and i'm pretty sure mines the factory one in the 911... Which may mean it's only a matter of time....
sorry to threadjack
Do a search, it has been discussed before on the "911 technical forum".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeride9 View Post
Another question for you guys. How are all of you suppling and returning the turbo oil? I am going to use the stock k2

And again thank you for all your replies!

Joe D
I'm going to the chain housing but plenty others have went to the oil drain plug at the bottom of the case. Search for "gravity drain".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeride9 View Post
Pelicans what waste gate and size are you using,and BOV?
Tanks Joe D
I have the second biggest Tial (which is really important to avoid boost creep!) and a 1.5" ID port BOV.
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Cory - turbo'd '87 C3.2 Guards/Blk, 3.4, 7.5:1 CR P & C's, soon to be 993SS cams and GSXR 750 ITB's fed by 964 intake, Borg-Warner S366 turbo @ 1.4 bar, Treadstone full bay IC, TiAL F46 WG, HKS 1 1/2" BOV, twin 044 pumps, MegaSquirt 2 (v3.57 board) w/EDIS, Tramont wheels (285's rr, 225's frt), Big Reds frt, 993 rr., tower brace, MOMO wheel
Old 12-07-2011, 04:04 AM
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