Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 35
Ruf BTR 3 Motronic running issues

Hi Guys,
I bought this RUF BTR 3 Motronic in a bit of a sorry state. When I got the car last fall, it was running OK, but there was a cut out at 6k rpm, and lots of smoke when it was started from cold. The PO had trouble getting the car to run correctly, and no local shop could read the proprietary RUF Motronic. Eventually the 'rough running' problem was relayed to RUF, and they sent over a couple of sensors, and that 'solved' the problem.

We took the engine out of the car straight away and had a close look at it. The bores were good, and nothing was melted, and the compression was even. I placed an order from our hosts for consumables such as the dist cap, rotor, plugs, wires, fuel pump etc. etc. to get those out of the way. I had some trouble finding injectors, but eventually found 12 of those. There were various oil pipes etc that were replaced, but the engine didn't come apart.

OK so the engine just went back in the car. Now it has some strange problems.

Some, but not all the time, the car will fire up and idle reasonably well, but will not take any throttle. It will just die as soon as the accelerator is pressed.

The rest of the time it fires up and runs well, though it is pretty grouchy from cold.

There does not seem to be any obvious correlation between running well, and not wanting to rev at all. It can go either way and doesn't seem to matter what time, temp etc. It just works or it doesn't.

If I turn the car off, wait a bit, turn the ignition on, wait a bit, then most times it will fire and run properly. Sometimes it takes 5 or 6 cycles, sometimes just one, sometimes it just fires up and is good.

??

Next problem is more consistent. The car will run well through the rev range and pull cleanly. But if I am too aggressive with the throttle, and the engine gets to about .4/.5 bar of boost, then it cuts out pretty hard. Not a fluffing or sputtering, but a hard cut-out.

We thought it could have been the throttle position sensor, replaced that, but same problem.

We think maybe it is worth replacing the crank position sensor?

It's a tough one as the car is a 79 SC chassis, sent to the factory in 92 for a complete conversion to BTR 3, and has a unique injection system.

Anybody else have anything similar happen to them and want to wade in on it?

Thanks, Lawrence

Old 04-04-2012, 06:22 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 35
Oh, I forgot to mention the turbo had lots of oil in it, and was rebuilt. Now there is no smoke....
Old 04-04-2012, 06:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
speednme1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,808
Imo sounds like she starves from fuel from time to time. I would start with fuel related items than move on to vacuum related items. Hopefully the experts will chime in...
Old 04-04-2012, 08:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Kauai, Hawaii
Posts: 413
Because I had a fuel pump problem, I say check fuel pumps. I am far from being expert though...
__________________
88' 930
03 Tacoma, 04 Duramax, 06 R350 Benz
If you are traveling at the speed of light & turn on your headlights, does anything happen?
Old 04-04-2012, 09:34 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
66cal912's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: San Juan, CA, USA
Posts: 148
Garage
Not sure what country or continent you are on, but if in the US, you could try getting a hold of an old turbo tuner whos worked with a lot of RUF parts and cars and pick his brain, he's done a biturbo, and other configurations using RUF parts. There is a few post on him here on Pelican, but I do not think a phone number, if I remember I ll try to dig the card out tonight for you. His name is Lee Rice.

Lee Rice gets a ride in yellowbird

Andial may be worth calling in Santa Ana, California, they used to deal with complexer older Bosch Systems, and may offer you some insight, but maybe tough, since the've never worked on your car.

Another option is Chris at TurboKraft, they did some of the stuff on a motor with Lee Rice using some Ruf parts and customs motec engine management....

Good luck, nice looking car, with an interesting history!

Ben
Old 04-05-2012, 12:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: S.F. North Bay
Posts: 1,308
I know this is old. I stumbled upon this while looking for other EFI info. Anyone know what finally was determined to be wrong with this car?
JR
Old 03-29-2013, 06:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Mr. C
 
SAY - 642's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 637
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by alwaysflat6s View Post
I know this is old. I stumbled upon this while looking for other EFI info. Anyone know what finally was determined to be wrong with this car?
JR
Hi, JR:

After extensive R/R all the injectors etc.. still no dice.

The culprit was the RUF ECU that needed to be replaced.




__________________
" Mr.C "

Six = Sex

Last edited by SAY - 642; 03-30-2013 at 06:35 AM..
Old 03-30-2013, 05:29 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 35
Yes, when the car came over from Europe, the chip in the ECU was replaced, and this was likely the problem. I found a replacement ECU in Australia, and it solved the problem. Had I not found the replacement I could have sent the ECU to Bosch Motorsports in Germany, and they have a program to rebuild old motorsports ECU's. They would have needed some help from RUF to give them the correct file for the BTR. This was a giant ordeal, and I was glad to have the car working. It went on eBay, and was picked up by Bring a Trailer, and then like 20 guys wanted to buy it. I miss the car, and want another BTR, though maybe one with CIS and standard Turbo brakes. The rotors alone on this car are 5,500 euros!
Old 03-30-2013, 04:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Mr. C
 
SAY - 642's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 637
Garage
Thank-you for the info Lawrence. I really liked that car.

The matter roll cage, brakes and that engine with the dual injectors !

It was a bargain for all the work that was done on it. I was very tempted.

Very Nice indeed
__________________
" Mr.C "

Six = Sex
Old 03-30-2013, 04:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 35
I am having some sellers remorse. Especially since I didn't realize it was picked up with BAT, despite getting their daily emails! Not paying attention that day. Anyway I have a bad feeling that I won't be able to replace it. I will list my 1964 356 C coupe when it is done, and look for another Ruf...
Old 04-01-2013, 06:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: S.F. North Bay
Posts: 1,308
Dear Iromanosky,

Interesting car and unfortunate. I will stick my nose in and suggest that you consider finding a Motronic Ruf or other more advanced engine management if you get another one. It is becoming increasingly difficult to source CIS parts and when you do, they often are not the exact parts you need! The CIS systems are wearing out and especially so with the extra heat associated with turbos.

I don't know if you are familiar with this but Ruf installs a poison pill in their Motronic units that puts it into Fail Safe mode when a tuner attempts to read the coding of the ecu. Only Ruf can put it back in proper working order. I had wondered with the original story line if this could have been what happened, but obviously that was not the case.

I don't blame you for wanting another. If I were in Germany I would have one, but I am lucky to have a talented brother who has helped me build a comparable 930 right here in CA. It can be difficult with these old beasts, but I am so grateful that I don't have to fly someone over from DE to sort out issues.. [of course I DO have to deal with my brother! :-> ]

Happy hunting
JR
Old 04-02-2013, 11:40 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 7,269
First, that has to be one of the rarest RUF motor builds ever and it deserves to be well documented as much as possable. I have never see anything writen about RUF doing a single EFI conversion on the 930 pancake manifold.

If you are still haveing problems and can not get RUF to help I would try contatcing Promotive. See:

Protomotive - Building the World's Fastest Porsches

Good luck.
Old 04-07-2013, 07:22 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,062
Garage
BTR here now running Motec engine management system.
Old 04-07-2013, 11:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TurboKraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,655
That's a really unusual injection configuration -- CIS manifold+IC+airbox, but Motronic twin injectors.

Years back we supplied an AEM-based EFI system for someone back East with a twin plug, twin injector Ruf engine. He simply blocked 6 of the injector ports and ran 6 modern high flow injectors. Last I heard it was still running strong and smooth.

Just rebuilt/restored a BTR engine that was shipped to us in pieces, and are getting ready to fire it up on EFI, too. CIS is original and period-correct, but impractical when the client is dealing with ethanol-based fuels in his country. Plus parts service, availability, cost... We had all the CIS restored and it either goes in a box with other parts from this car, or it goes up for sale for someone else restoring his 3.4L BTR.

__________________
Chris Carroll
TurboKraft, Inc.
Tel. 480.969.0911
email: info@turbokraft.com
http://www.facebook.com/TurboKraft - http://www.instagram.com/TurboKraft
Old 04-08-2013, 11:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:40 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2020 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.