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how much rwhp? GT35R on lightly modded EFi motor

My motor has recently been refreshed, stock P&C's, SC cams, runs EFi on the stock pancake inlet, CDI powered CoP ignition, 500cc injectors, Turbokraft IC. I run an aerocharger turbo which runs at 1 bar and pulls 80% duty cycle out of the injectors, which suggests about 350hp topped out??

Was wondering how much power a GT3582R would make on this set up at both 0.8 and 1 bar? The turbo calculators around do seem to say it will do much over 400rwhp at 1 bar, looking for some real world comparison assuming fuel and timing control are not a problem. (I have close loop knock also).

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1988 930: 3.5L 100mm LN slipins, LN FFA rods, Supertec studs, GT3582R with T4 1.07A/R twin scroll housing, RarlyL8 equal length divided headers, dual Tial MVS 38mm WG's, Carrera 3.2 heads with 993 big valves. 964 Cams, full bay IC, KEP st1 clutch. PE3 sequential ECU with 750cc EV14 injectors, CoP twin plugs, J&S Safegaurd, Aquamist HSF3 water inj. Wavetrac LSD.

Last edited by b930; 04-26-2012 at 01:26 AM..
Old 04-26-2012, 01:22 AM
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B - what are you using for exhaust?

Assuming something reasonably free flowing, you should be seeing somewhere in the neighborhood of 500rwhp. I have a TurboKraft car (for sale, for those looking!) with a similar arrangement except for the stock intercooler. Below is a video of the dyno run. Chris suggested the additional boost and/or timing I could safely run would put the car in the 500whp range.

Dyno Video - 10.13.10.AVI - YouTube

Best,
John
Old 04-26-2012, 06:26 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Is your Aerocharger the manually adjustable VNT? If so then 350whp might be a stretch. The power is all pushed to the low end at the expense of top end. Lots of torque, not much HP.
The GT35 on an EFI engine can put out 500WHP with typical supporting mods.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 04-26-2012, 07:57 AM
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John, 500 rwhp, wow. what injectors and duty were you pulling? My exhaust is a free flowing 3" system. Brian, the aerocharger self adjusts the turbine vanes so when it's making boost it opens them up (no wastegate), cheers.
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1988 930: 3.5L 100mm LN slipins, LN FFA rods, Supertec studs, GT3582R with T4 1.07A/R twin scroll housing, RarlyL8 equal length divided headers, dual Tial MVS 38mm WG's, Carrera 3.2 heads with 993 big valves. 964 Cams, full bay IC, KEP st1 clutch. PE3 sequential ECU with 750cc EV14 injectors, CoP twin plugs, J&S Safegaurd, Aquamist HSF3 water inj. Wavetrac LSD.
Old 04-26-2012, 02:37 PM
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Thanks.
The thing I find confusing is when you go through the calculations on Garrett's site to work out mass flow required to support 500whp (~58lb/min) and then calculate boost, I get something like 1.5 bar gauge pressure.....I must be doing it wrong or something as it sounds like people are achieving this output with 1 bar or so.
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1988 930: 3.5L 100mm LN slipins, LN FFA rods, Supertec studs, GT3582R with T4 1.07A/R twin scroll housing, RarlyL8 equal length divided headers, dual Tial MVS 38mm WG's, Carrera 3.2 heads with 993 big valves. 964 Cams, full bay IC, KEP st1 clutch. PE3 sequential ECU with 750cc EV14 injectors, CoP twin plugs, J&S Safegaurd, Aquamist HSF3 water inj. Wavetrac LSD.
Old 04-26-2012, 06:46 PM
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Yes it self-adjusts, but within a range of adjustability. I wouldn't run it without a wastegate. With the power potential your engine has it is unlikely that all the exhaust energy/volume is going through the turbo at high rpm without choking the system. A dyno run and back pressure test will give you the info you need.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 04-26-2012, 06:55 PM
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Forte500
 
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I have a 3.4L with GT35 turbo, 3.2 Carrera intake and motec EFI. Running 540 WHP at 1.1 BAR.
Old 04-26-2012, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forte500 View Post
I have a 3.4L with GT35 turbo, 3.2 Carrera intake and motec EFI. Running 540 WHP at 1.1 BAR.
Serious power. What injectors, fuel pressure and duty cycle are you seeing?
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1988 930: 3.5L 100mm LN slipins, LN FFA rods, Supertec studs, GT3582R with T4 1.07A/R twin scroll housing, RarlyL8 equal length divided headers, dual Tial MVS 38mm WG's, Carrera 3.2 heads with 993 big valves. 964 Cams, full bay IC, KEP st1 clutch. PE3 sequential ECU with 750cc EV14 injectors, CoP twin plugs, J&S Safegaurd, Aquamist HSF3 water inj. Wavetrac LSD.
Old 04-26-2012, 07:37 PM
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B - I think Chris said it would take 1.2bar to hit 500rwhp with some conservatisim in the timing with the 3.3L motor and pancake manifold. Go to a setup similar Forte's and power potential is much greater!

I have the details written down somewhere, but my injectors are those in the TK EFI kit.
Old 04-27-2012, 06:46 AM
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Forte500
 
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Think they're 80lb injectors running at 50-60% duty cycle.
Old 04-27-2012, 07:19 AM
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Cool. Let's see what the 500cc injector will support. I have ordered a Gt35r, .8AR 2" outlet, 3" inlet, v band exh. Have installed GSF headers. Looking forward to seeing what this puppy will do. My aerocharger kit will be up for sale. As new, little use. Good kit, but I need the next level of power.
Old 04-27-2012, 09:26 PM
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I have have sent you a pm. I am interested in your Aerocharger
Old 04-28-2012, 12:10 PM
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420rwhp at just under 1.0bar on 91-octane. Full boost before 3250rpm.

Two other 3.3L Turbos doing 500rwhp on pump gas on a Dynapack chassis dyno. One of those did 566rwhp on a Mustang dyno. 660cc injectors now maxed out, fuel pressure good.

Good luck.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
420rwhp at just under 1.0bar on 91-octane. Full boost before 3250rpm.

Two other 3.3L Turbos doing 500rwhp on pump gas on a Dynapack chassis dyno. One of those did 566rwhp on a Mustang dyno. 660cc injectors now maxed out, fuel pressure good.

Good luck.
Thanks Chris. I guess I better stick with 0.8 bar with those 500cc injectors! We have mostly dynodynamics dyno's here which are very conservative so will be interesting so see what it shows.
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1988 930: 3.5L 100mm LN slipins, LN FFA rods, Supertec studs, GT3582R with T4 1.07A/R twin scroll housing, RarlyL8 equal length divided headers, dual Tial MVS 38mm WG's, Carrera 3.2 heads with 993 big valves. 964 Cams, full bay IC, KEP st1 clutch. PE3 sequential ECU with 750cc EV14 injectors, CoP twin plugs, J&S Safegaurd, Aquamist HSF3 water inj. Wavetrac LSD.
Old 04-30-2012, 07:32 PM
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Well I received my kit from Albert at GSF. Great guy to deal with and very cost effective parts. Quality is better than I expected.

Headers:


Turbo:


Tial F46


Muffler:



Sound is superb, no drone at all, very refined sounding exhaust, possibly a tad quiet under boost. My only complaint is that it hangs a bit low under the valance.

Now on to performance......all I can say is wow. How responsive is thing?...it spools from 2k and comes on hard but really smooth (kind of hard to describe). I'll have to shoot some video so you can all see but I am very impressed with this turbo. No oiling / smoking issues to report yet but have not run many miles yet.

I am running off the .8bar spring and I have had to massively increase the fuel numbers in the SDS to richen it up under boost. I think it will eat up my 500cc injectors with just the .8 bar spring. It just feels so smooth and fuss free in the way it delivers the power. The low exhaust backpressure really feels like it lets the motor spin out more easily.

Had to conclude testing and tuning early as I started to get the dreaded death rattle from the timing chains. This happened intermittently before and now its constant so I think my recent post run in oil change to full synth from dino just made it come back permanently somehow, maybe it shifted some debris or something.

Anyway, the V-band set up is awesome, no gaskets or seal rings to worry about, 1 easy access bolt to the turbo and the muffler strap and the entire exhaust is off. removed rear tin etc with engine still on mount and was into the chain tensioner covers in less than 2 hrs. Ordered some new tensioners and hope this will cure the noise so I can get back to enjoying this great turbo!
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1988 930: 3.5L 100mm LN slipins, LN FFA rods, Supertec studs, GT3582R with T4 1.07A/R twin scroll housing, RarlyL8 equal length divided headers, dual Tial MVS 38mm WG's, Carrera 3.2 heads with 993 big valves. 964 Cams, full bay IC, KEP st1 clutch. PE3 sequential ECU with 750cc EV14 injectors, CoP twin plugs, J&S Safegaurd, Aquamist HSF3 water inj. Wavetrac LSD.

Last edited by b930; 05-19-2012 at 10:23 PM..
Old 05-19-2012, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
420rwhp at just under 1.0bar on 91-octane. Full boost before 3250rpm.



Two other 3.3L Turbos doing 500rwhp on pump gas on a Dynapack chassis dyno. One of those did 566rwhp on a Mustang dyno. 660cc injectors now maxed out, fuel pressure good.



Good luck.
Chris, when you say 500rwhp on a 3.3. Is that with stock internals?

This looks like awesome power somewhat cheap...
Old 05-21-2012, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsveb View Post
Chris, when you say 500rwhp on a 3.3. Is that with stock internals?
This looks like awesome power somewhat cheap...
Mostly stock internals: 36mm ported heads, SC cams.

One engine came to us in pieces, and the owner had been following (up to that point) the same old mild conservative recommendations dating back to the first edition of Bruce Anderson's 911 Performance Handbook.
We took the external bolt-ons a step further with better headers, 3" free-flow muffler, our longneck intercooler, Garrett GT35R turbo, and our bolt-on EFI Injector Block conversion (no Carrera manifold).
Internally, we upgraded rod bolts and head studs. That's it.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:22 AM
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More recent 3.3L we tuned, stock internals with port & polish + cams:

Taking the EFI Plunge

Note: Kelly has the same GSF headers and while the wastegate has a 12psi/0.8bar spring, the boost creeps up to 18psi by peak rpm because of their design. Still, at 18psi that engine makes 540rwhp on pump gas with a conservative tune!

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Chris Carroll
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Tel. 480.969.0911
email: info@turbokraft.com
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Old 05-23-2012, 12:50 PM
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