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Forte500
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Greenwich
Posts: 162
Water Methanol Setup w/Motec

Thinking about putting in a H2O/Meth system in my highly modified 930. Would like to know if I need to change tuning setup or is the plug n' play, figuratively speaking. Found some threads but not everyone has EFI set-up. Looking for the same power I get on "cold" days and some added safety.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks guys..
Frank

Old 05-01-2012, 10:45 AM
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Depending on how much methanol in your mix, you may need to pull fuel out of your tables to keep your AFR's from going too rich.
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1983 3.4L 911SC turbo. Sold
Old 05-01-2012, 10:55 AM
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Forte500
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
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What mix is safe w/o having to change tables? What kit do you recommend? Thanks
Old 05-01-2012, 12:48 PM
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The mix I use is 50:50 by weight. If you use methanol, you have to tune your fuel tables for it. On the other hand it is best to have a failsafe that can recognize failure of injection such as an AFR safety system in your primary ECU or a progressive methanol injection controller that provides a signal to your ECU if it detects failure of injection so timing can be pulled automatically. No system is perfectly reliable so if you tune to the raged edge, rapid and catastrophic engine failure awaits any hiccup in your methanol injection under the right (wrong) conditions.
I have only used CoolingMist with a stand alone 2D progressive controller (VC2). However, with my current upgrades, I have switched out to their "Progressive EMS Controller" which can be controlled by a 3D table from my Megasquirt ECU. It will be a while before I can give any feedback on that. The VC2 was fine, provided both flow and failsafe feedback including reservoir level monitoring.
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1983 3.4L 911SC turbo. Sold
Old 05-01-2012, 01:21 PM
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Smart quod bastardus
 
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I have a Snow Performance kit that i run with my CIS system. It has a tunable progressive rate flow controller. Allows control of both flow intitiation setting and the cutoff point. This allows you to control the linear variation of fluid from the initial flow setting to when it goes full flow. It has variable nozzles as well to get in the ballpark of your flow needs. It has worked well for me so far in 10k miles of useage. You can also buy a light to indicate when it is pumping and also a light for low fluid levels. I use Walmart windshield washer fluid right from the stock washer tank on my 930. Typically I think most washer fluids run between 20-30% methanol.
Cole led me on to this and he has some experience running the go juice too. I think it is a great kit.....but nothing is completely infallible.

Fred
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 05-01-2012, 04:01 PM
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Forte500
 
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Do you notice a significant power difference? Is it a pain to dial in at different boost levels....I'm looking for something that is not going to upset my fuel maps/tuning.
Old 05-01-2012, 06:19 PM
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Smart quod bastardus
 
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I have never run the engine without it since my rebuild. I just plugged it in and tuned it to get my AF ratio where it needed to be without engine stumbling. When it was out of tune the engine hesitated and lost power until I got the dials set to where I needed them. It took about a day or 2 of running around on the highways under heavy boost to get it set. It still probably could be tweaked further.
Unfortunately, it is going to effect your fuel settings especially if you have compensated for things in your current set up and have it close as is. The whole purpose of adding the device is to lower AF ratio and prevent detonation for those running leaner than possible without it. It also cools the intake charge temps and effectively increases octane levels of the fuel with the methane thats injected. All this will allow you to run a little leaner fuel settings than normally would have to on straight gasoline alone. So long story short I think you will have to alter your tuning maps slightly to take advantage of this. But its worth the effort isn't it?
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 05-02-2012, 02:54 PM
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Forte - if you tune the system for it, you can make significantly more power with water/meth injection. The Japanese tuner cars have been using these systems since the late 90s with a lot of success.

If you're just looking for a margin of safety and a small benefit, similar to running the car on a cold day, you should be able to setup the function of your Motec similar to Aquamist's basic system. If memory serves, it just runs a constant flow rate, after a user-defined boost pressure, regardless of rpm and load - in other words, an on/off switch. Assuming the car is already properly tuned for the lower air temp, and the amount of water you use is minimal, I don't think you'd need to do any significant tuning to compensate. The same wouldn't hold true if you were thinking of using a meth injection and running enough so that you were combusting the meth and seeing a power increase.
Old 05-03-2012, 04:22 AM
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Forte500
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Thanks for replies. I am seriously considering...anybody feel strongly about a "kit" from the few leading mfgs? Thinking about the Snow Performance Stage 2.
Old 05-04-2012, 02:45 AM
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I'm running snow and like it overall.
I have the optional fluid level sensor. It responds to the fluid sloshing when only half empty so the flashing red light on acceleration is a bit annoying.
The standard reservoir is probably too small if you drive your car often. Not a problem for me because my car is just fair weather use now.
Don't cut corners using washer fluid. There is no standard on the mix.
Buy denatured alcohol at the box hardware store in the paint section and mix with distilled water.

Old 05-04-2012, 04:31 AM
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