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Scavenge pump identification.

I'm considering EFI and coil over plug for 87 930.. The slippery slope continues..

I need to either swap out my existing scavenge pump for the Clewett option or modify my existing pump drive so I can add a cam trigger and sensor.

Has anyone seen a pump like mine? I know what the inside of a OEM 930 scavenge pump looks like... I assume that my current pump actually looks similar to the Clewett design. Maybe I actually have an old Clewett model pump.

Does anyone know







Thanks for any help that you can offer.
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'87 930, 3.3 liter, K27 hybrid, Kokeln IC, Andial, B&B, Borla, 17" Supercups.
Old 05-02-2012, 06:49 PM
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That doesn't look like my 930 pump, but why not leave it alone if it works and buy a 3.6 conversion kit flywheel and use the oem trigger/sensor mounted on the case. I'd bet your case already has the bolt holes for the sensor. All you have to do is notch your bell housing to make room for it.

Here's my build and I got the kit from Patrick Motorsports: The Beautiful Puzzle: 1987 3.3L 930 EFI Build
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FS 1987 930 DTAFast EFI w/Electronic Dash, 17x9x11" Lindsey Racing Fuchs, Andial 8.39 R&P, C2 Intake, SuperCup Cams, Flame Ringed Heads & Cylinders, TurboKraft Full Bay Intercooler, RearlyL8 Twin Scroll Headers, Big Bullseye Twin Scroll Turbo...SOLD
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Last edited by CaptainCalf; 05-02-2012 at 07:17 PM.. Reason: Spell
Old 05-02-2012, 07:15 PM
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TurboKraft can machine your flywheel for the EFI trigger teeth, save you the money of buying another flywheel.
All 1984-94 engine cases have the 2-bolt mounting flange by cylinder #3 for the flywheel speed reference sensor.
Then we use a hall-effect sensor to read the flywheel. High resolution, and a clean signal.
Simple.

Pump: that's the old scav pump that pre-dates Clewett's, both of which are just VW oil pumps in billet housings. They ~4x more than stock, and are good for engines running non-KKK/BorgWarner journal bearing turbochargers.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
TurboKraft can machine your flywheel for the EFI trigger teeth, save you the money of buying another flywheel.
All 1984-94 engine cases have the 2-bolt mounting flange by cylinder #3 for the flywheel speed reference sensor.
Then we use a hall-effect sensor to read the flywheel. High resolution, and a clean signal.
Simple.

Pump: that's the old scav pump that pre-dates Clewett's, both of which are just VW oil pumps in billet housings. They ~4x more than stock, and are good for engines running non-KKK/BorgWarner journal bearing turbochargers.
There is still the problem of getting cam sync for sequential operation which means adding an air pump pulley modified for a cam sensor, going to the new Clewett scavenge pump, or modifying your distributor for cam sensor function.

Chris, what did you mean about "good for engines running non-KKK..."? Will this pump not work adequately for a ball bearing turbo or KKK?
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:30 PM
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should be able to find a stock pump and just do the bolt through the air pump pulley trick with tha hall sensor. I see them here sometimes and on e bay usually pretty cheap.
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88 turbo Guards red Targa slant nose, and yes I am a horsepower junkie, 3.4liter,7.5 to 1 JE pistons, Adjustable WUR, Imagine fuel head, 1 bar waste gate headers,allthe cis toys. Now apart to become the next EFI monster. fabbing my own intake, headers Individual throttle bodies, MS-3, pauter rods, Xtreme twin plugged heads, gt-2 evo cams cop's.
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Old 05-04-2012, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjf911 View Post
There is still the problem of getting cam sync for sequential operation which means adding an air pump pulley modified for a cam sensor, going to the new Clewett scavenge pump, or modifying your distributor for cam sensor function.

Chris, what did you mean about "good for engines running non-KKK..."? Will this pump not work adequately for a ball bearing turbo or KKK?
Pump:
The stock scavenge pump works fine for original K-series turbos.
It also works fine for single turbo and twin turbo applications with Garrett ball bearing turbochargers as these turbochargers have very low oil flow requirements.

That aftermarket scavenge pump is ideal for single turbo applications running non-K-series turbos with journal bearing, ex: a T3/T4 turbocharger.
It also flows enough oil for a twin turbo setup using 2 journal bearing turbos, ex: a pair of K16s or a pair of T3s.

That pump can be modified to integrate a camshaft synch (synchronisation) trigger for sequential injection/ignition. It's a little time consuming but not difficult to do. The stainless bodied threaded sensor is the expensive part, over $100.
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken911 View Post
should be able to find a stock pump and just do the bolt through the air pump pulley trick with tha hall sensor. I see them here sometimes and on e bay usually pretty cheap.
We got a few PMs about this, so here's the information for all: easy way to have full sequential triggering for 930s and 911s.


Flywheel Ref (speed reference) sensor, camshaft Synch (synchronisation), plus CHT (Cylinder Head Temperature) for an engine "coolant" signal.




Closeup of cam Synch triggering. The air pump pulley is no longer needed anyway, so put it to use. The sensor is hall-effect, so a clean digital squarewave signal to the ECU.




Closeup of flywheel Ref triggering. Original flywheel is machined for timing teeth, similar to factory's method on all their Motronic engines. All 1984-98 engine cases have the two holes for mounting the sensor bracket. Again, a hall-effect sensor is used so there are no high speed timing errors.

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Old 05-04-2012, 12:29 PM
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Is the flywheel sensor better than a sensor on the crank pulley?

It looks like voitureltd's car has the same scavenge pump.
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:51 PM
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I have the same oil scavenge pump on my engine built by DonE
It is a billet aluminum high capacity scavenge pump. Might be a clewett part.
I found it when I googled when buying the engine, but did not find it now

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1979 930: Garret GT35r turbo, EFI, carerra intake, Link EMS, custom GT2 cams, 98mm JE P/C, 964 crank (stroker), custom valves & ported (XtremeCylinderHeads) etc..etc..
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Old 05-04-2012, 03:00 PM
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Turbokraft:

I'm running a KKK K27 hybrid turbo (T3/T4 variant) now.. This oil pump has been on this car for many thousands of miles with no turbo failure.

Also, I am planning on using coil on plug so I need a cam trigger not a flywheel trigger. I'm going to modify the scavenge pump drive for my cam trigger. I plan to make a new drive piece with a tooth. I also plan to dril and tap the pump extension (housing) for a threaded style sensor.

I am planning on a 36 toothed wheel at the crank and a single toothed wheel on the cam for my megasquirt II Extra.

Thanks for all of the input.
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'87 930, 3.3 liter, K27 hybrid, Kokeln IC, Andial, B&B, Borla, 17" Supercups.

Last edited by HFR_Racer; 05-04-2012 at 04:34 PM..
Old 05-04-2012, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
Pump:
The stainless bodied threaded sensor is the expensive part, over $100.
Actually you can get a threaded SS hall sensor from DIY autotune for 37.00
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88 turbo Guards red Targa slant nose, and yes I am a horsepower junkie, 3.4liter,7.5 to 1 JE pistons, Adjustable WUR, Imagine fuel head, 1 bar waste gate headers,allthe cis toys. Now apart to become the next EFI monster. fabbing my own intake, headers Individual throttle bodies, MS-3, pauter rods, Xtreme twin plugged heads, gt-2 evo cams cop's.
05 Cayenne S lapis blue
Old 05-04-2012, 04:58 PM
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That is a billet scavenge pump from PowerTech that uses VW gears.

PowerTech
Old 05-04-2012, 06:22 PM
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Chris,

What is your recommendation for trigger on a 78 case without the boss for the sensors?
Crank pulley?
I'm going to be running a M600.
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Old 01-25-2014, 09:24 AM
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I'll be using a crank pulley plus a sensor that screws into the air pump pully housing.
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88 turbo Guards red Targa slant nose, and yes I am a horsepower junkie, 3.4liter,7.5 to 1 JE pistons, Adjustable WUR, Imagine fuel head, 1 bar waste gate headers,allthe cis toys. Now apart to become the next EFI monster. fabbing my own intake, headers Individual throttle bodies, MS-3, pauter rods, Xtreme twin plugged heads, gt-2 evo cams cop's.
05 Cayenne S lapis blue
Old 01-25-2014, 06:14 PM
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