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Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Also, they may not be turbo but they are EFI, which a big plus over prehistoric CIS in my opinion, don't get too hooked on your 'superior' engines!
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'89 911 M491+Turbo '89 944 Turbo '88 928S4 '18 C63S Coupe |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: St. Louis, Mo
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i have owned both and currently have a m491. IMO it is all about production numbers. Reminds me of the Superbirds you see on Barrett-Jackson. Those cars sat at dealers with no takers due to various reasons. Now, they're worth obscene amounts due to the low production numbers. In 1986, I went with my father to test drive a new m491 cab and the 911 Turbo. The m491 was 56k and the Turbo iir correctly was 62k. Problem was he wasn't really a Porsche enthusiast like we are. ( ended up buying the 1st year of the Saab 900 Turbo cabriolet - Dumbest move ever !!! ) The appeal of the m491 is the looks and suspension of the turbo but the reliability of the 3.2 c motor. Saying that, Yes I would prefer the 3.3 Turbo everyday and twice on sunday but the 3.2 is still fun to drive. My car was originally a spoiler delete car making it pretty rare but the original selling dealer had it on his lot so long that he put a slant nose and all the spoilers on it to move the inventory. I feel as the turbos go up in value, the m491 will just tag along with them. I do remember my Dad saying that the Turbo was hard to drive on boost - rather, plugging away in traffic and urban areas, the lag made it hard to use what the turbo is for. Today, technology has helped and we can get rid of lag that plagued these cars. Also, most of us , use these as weekend cars or fun cars meaning we drive them when were going somewhere where we can use what the car was built to do ( blow flames out the tailpipe ) Still, most of us I think agree that a 3.3 will need some attention by 80k miles, On the other hand , I know of a 3.2 with a good leakdown at 290k on the clock. Something to be said for the M491.
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"The only thing that ever really counts is the badge on the nose !!!!"
Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled" Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports. Last edited by cole930; 05-25-2012 at 03:50 PM.. |
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Negatives of the M491 option:
1) "Better" suspension/brakes = heavier weight. (Without the HP benefit to offset that.) 2) Barn door aerodynamics of the wider body. Ruf went with the narrow body for Yellowbird for a reason. Again, without the turbo HP. 3) Always having to explain that yeah, it's not really a turbo. I looked at a Turbo Look (tail delete) before I bought my 930. It looked great sans tail. And as the seller didn't really realize what he had, there was no price premium (maybe around $17K, IIRC). Had I been in the buying stage--as opposed to the tire kicking mode--I might have considered it seriously. But if an M491 is going to cost as much as a 930, I'm going with the turbo. The maintenance costs aren't that much more than a N/A car.
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1987 Venetian Blue (looks like grey) 930 Coupe 1990 Black 964 C2 Targa |
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Thats the Porsche market for you. Low production and low mile cars get crazy prices. I dont particularly think that a clubsport should cost 3 times what a carrera costs, given what it gives you above a carrera, but here we are. IMO the M491 option is worth a few grand at least, given thats what it would cost you to add the parts to a narrow body, assuming you found those parts desirable. I found them desirable and paid a little extra. The rarity is a nice bonus.
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1985 Iris Blue M491 911 Coupe Last edited by oh snap; 05-25-2012 at 11:20 PM.. |
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People also "upgrade" their cars with bigger diameter (17" or 18") wheels (or use modern Porsche wheels which require big spacers/adapters), which impacts unsprung weight. But they do it. Plenty of people who have "upgraded" their narrow body cars with a turbo tail...but no matching front spoiler.
And rarity in numbers doesn't always match street value. Otherwise turbo targas would be the bees knees, pricewise. But while they were made in fewer numbers than coupes and cabriolets, they usually trade for less money. In the end, it's financially worth whatever someone else is willing to pay for it. Personally, I'd be willing to pay a $10-15K premium for a 930 over narrowbody G-50 Carrera prices. But not necessarily more than that (my personal budget). I might pay a few thousand over G-50 prices for an M491-optioned car, but not $10-15K more. Again, my personal budget.
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1987 Venetian Blue (looks like grey) 930 Coupe 1990 Black 964 C2 Targa Last edited by Noah930; 05-26-2012 at 08:19 AM.. |
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just want to say i think it's great they made the 911 widebody both ways and we have the choices. it is the sexiest looking 911 ever made and it's a classic.
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Oh Snap - Do we have identical cars? (Except year) Mines 1986 Iris blue with black leather.
- Jason ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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1986 911 TurboLook - Iris Blue 1997 993 TT - Horizon Blue 2007 GT3 RS - RS Green 2008 GT2 - Midnight Blue https://www.wht2du.com & https://sfbaytransit.org/ |
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![]() I agree with you that a m491 is worth about a few grand more, when you get into the really low mile cars though Porsche prices start to get crazy though and all bets are off. Like you say its worth what someone will pay
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1985 Iris Blue M491 911 Coupe |
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1985 Iris Blue M491 911 Coupe |
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Wide body 911 is arguably one of the best looking cars ever made. Why cant there be a choice of engines without some of us looking down our noses at the NA ones? Sheesh!
To the original question, who knows why people pay what they do for anything. If I was going to have a NA, I'd pay maybe 5k more than a flat sided one for one of the 491s. It would cost more than that to duplicate.
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Ken 1986 930, 1969 Mach1, 2003 540 Sport, 2016 R1200RS |
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Love the color of Iris Blue! Pictures don't do justice! - Jason
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1986 911 TurboLook - Iris Blue 1997 993 TT - Horizon Blue 2007 GT3 RS - RS Green 2008 GT2 - Midnight Blue https://www.wht2du.com & https://sfbaytransit.org/ |
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87 carmine red 930 | 57k | B6 modified IC | GHL headers | custom exhaust | VEMS EFI | carrera intake w/ flipped TB | LS2 coils | EBC | K27-7200 (soon to be replaced by GTX3071 |
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I am not trying to insult anyone who owns a M491 with this thread as stated several times by others the body style IMHO is the best looking style ever. I guess there are many valid points for the premium price but also as stated when the boost kicks in there is no other feeling like it you just can't get that from a NA car. Oh Snap if the case was that a super clean M491 was more than an average 930 that would make sense and sorry for starting another thread on this did not realize there were others. But I have seen super clean 930's for costing between 10k to 15k less than an M491 so to me this still makes no sense. I guess my love of the 930 just makes my opinion biased but either way after owning the "real thing" I feel that is the only way to go.
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86 930 Grand Prix White 11 Cayenne |
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- Jason
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1986 911 TurboLook - Iris Blue 1997 993 TT - Horizon Blue 2007 GT3 RS - RS Green 2008 GT2 - Midnight Blue https://www.wht2du.com & https://sfbaytransit.org/ Last edited by 911TurboLook; 05-27-2012 at 09:56 AM.. |
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![]() 911TurboLook, if you bought your car from FL around the end of 2010 It is the car that made me fall in love with iris blue. I saw an iris M491 on eBay and loved it but it was low mile and pristine and thus out of my price range . Had I had an extra 10k or so I would have bought it. Then a few months later I found mine, which is more of a "driver" and within reach and here we are ![]() The low production low mile high priced anomalies are just part of the Porsche market that don't always make sense unless you are a collector with bottomless pockets.
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1985 Iris Blue M491 911 Coupe |
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Oh Snap - Yup that was me. Be glad you didn't buy it! Let me tell yea, it was a mistake for not getting a PPI or went and looked at the car. The car is in pristine condition right now but when I got the car it was in rough condition. I basically replaced every rubber part on the car, front spolier, front valence, front bumper, rear valence, carpet and just about everything else. I even rebuilt the transmission! (Car wasn't even drive-able). The seller was very distrustful. It's sad people are like this now days. Anyways a ton of $$$ and lots of my time the car is now in concours condition.
- Jason
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1986 911 TurboLook - Iris Blue 1997 993 TT - Horizon Blue 2007 GT3 RS - RS Green 2008 GT2 - Midnight Blue https://www.wht2du.com & https://sfbaytransit.org/ Last edited by 911TurboLook; 05-27-2012 at 11:21 AM.. |
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Just came across a beautiful black - 911 turbo look this weekend.. Yes it's nice.....but there is no comparison for sound and performance of 3.3 turbo or better... Or a young buck in his new mustang trying to challenge me....It ain't gonna happen. Performance 1st. Looks 2nd...Inmop
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1985 Iris Blue M491 911 Coupe Last edited by oh snap; 05-27-2012 at 03:12 PM.. |
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- Jason
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1986 911 TurboLook - Iris Blue 1997 993 TT - Horizon Blue 2007 GT3 RS - RS Green 2008 GT2 - Midnight Blue https://www.wht2du.com & https://sfbaytransit.org/ |
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