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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miguel Antonett View Post
The model name says it all "Turbo Look".

Which implies, NOT the real thing but the "look", for some folks that's enough... I've seen a couple of Turbo Look well sorted out and are impressive machines; however, don't have the charm of a 930.
The biggest issue here is the marketing term 'turbo look', this was only used in the USA and it sounds like 'try hard' or 'poser', to the rest of us the car is a 'Carrera Sport', it was the start of the S model Carreras, a designation that is still used today... S models in 993, 996, 997 fetch comparable and often greater resale than their turbo brothers, so it's not really an anomaly that these cars get good money.

Also, they may not be turbo but they are EFI, which a big plus over prehistoric CIS in my opinion, don't get too hooked on your 'superior' engines!

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Old 05-25-2012, 03:23 PM
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i have owned both and currently have a m491. IMO it is all about production numbers. Reminds me of the Superbirds you see on Barrett-Jackson. Those cars sat at dealers with no takers due to various reasons. Now, they're worth obscene amounts due to the low production numbers. In 1986, I went with my father to test drive a new m491 cab and the 911 Turbo. The m491 was 56k and the Turbo iir correctly was 62k. Problem was he wasn't really a Porsche enthusiast like we are. ( ended up buying the 1st year of the Saab 900 Turbo cabriolet - Dumbest move ever !!! ) The appeal of the m491 is the looks and suspension of the turbo but the reliability of the 3.2 c motor. Saying that, Yes I would prefer the 3.3 Turbo everyday and twice on sunday but the 3.2 is still fun to drive. My car was originally a spoiler delete car making it pretty rare but the original selling dealer had it on his lot so long that he put a slant nose and all the spoilers on it to move the inventory. I feel as the turbos go up in value, the m491 will just tag along with them. I do remember my Dad saying that the Turbo was hard to drive on boost - rather, plugging away in traffic and urban areas, the lag made it hard to use what the turbo is for. Today, technology has helped and we can get rid of lag that plagued these cars. Also, most of us , use these as weekend cars or fun cars meaning we drive them when were going somewhere where we can use what the car was built to do ( blow flames out the tailpipe ) Still, most of us I think agree that a 3.3 will need some attention by 80k miles, On the other hand , I know of a 3.2 with a good leakdown at 290k on the clock. Something to be said for the M491.
Old 05-25-2012, 03:34 PM
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Last edited by cole930; 05-25-2012 at 03:50 PM..
Old 05-25-2012, 03:47 PM
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Negatives of the M491 option:

1) "Better" suspension/brakes = heavier weight. (Without the HP benefit to offset that.)
2) Barn door aerodynamics of the wider body. Ruf went with the narrow body for Yellowbird for a reason. Again, without the turbo HP.
3) Always having to explain that yeah, it's not really a turbo.

I looked at a Turbo Look (tail delete) before I bought my 930. It looked great sans tail. And as the seller didn't really realize what he had, there was no price premium (maybe around $17K, IIRC). Had I been in the buying stage--as opposed to the tire kicking mode--I might have considered it seriously. But if an M491 is going to cost as much as a 930, I'm going with the turbo. The maintenance costs aren't that much more than a N/A car.
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:37 PM
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Thats the Porsche market for you. Low production and low mile cars get crazy prices. I dont particularly think that a clubsport should cost 3 times what a carrera costs, given what it gives you above a carrera, but here we are. IMO the M491 option is worth a few grand at least, given thats what it would cost you to add the parts to a narrow body, assuming you found those parts desirable. I found them desirable and paid a little extra. The rarity is a nice bonus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah930 View Post
Negatives of the M491 option:

1) "Better" suspension/brakes = heavier weight. (Without the HP benefit to offset that.)
2) Barn door aerodynamics of the wider body. Ruf went with the narrow body for Yellowbird for a reason. Again, without the turbo HP.
3) Always having to explain that yeah, it's not really a turbo.

I looked at a Turbo Look (tail delete) before I bought my 930. It looked great sans tail. And as the seller didn't really realize what he had, there was no price premium (maybe around $17K, IIRC). Had I been in the buying stage--as opposed to the tire kicking mode--I might have considered it seriously. But if an M491 is going to cost as much as a 930, I'm going with the turbo. The maintenance costs aren't that much more than a N/A car.
interesting that those are "cons" considering so many nb owners upgrade (or "upgrade?") their cars with 930 brakes, suspension and flairs...


everyone loves the 993 C2S but we get labeled as poseurs if only porsche had called it a carrera s from the start we wouldnt have this thread everytime someone saw a "perfect" M491 priced above a "decent" 930
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Last edited by oh snap; 05-25-2012 at 11:20 PM..
Old 05-25-2012, 11:17 PM
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People also "upgrade" their cars with bigger diameter (17" or 18") wheels (or use modern Porsche wheels which require big spacers/adapters), which impacts unsprung weight. But they do it. Plenty of people who have "upgraded" their narrow body cars with a turbo tail...but no matching front spoiler.

And rarity in numbers doesn't always match street value. Otherwise turbo targas would be the bees knees, pricewise. But while they were made in fewer numbers than coupes and cabriolets, they usually trade for less money.

In the end, it's financially worth whatever someone else is willing to pay for it.

Personally, I'd be willing to pay a $10-15K premium for a 930 over narrowbody G-50 Carrera prices. But not necessarily more than that (my personal budget). I might pay a few thousand over G-50 prices for an M491-optioned car, but not $10-15K more. Again, my personal budget.
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Last edited by Noah930; 05-26-2012 at 08:19 AM..
Old 05-26-2012, 08:12 AM
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just want to say i think it's great they made the 911 widebody both ways and we have the choices. it is the sexiest looking 911 ever made and it's a classic.
Old 05-26-2012, 08:34 AM
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Oh Snap - Do we have identical cars? (Except year) Mines 1986 Iris blue with black leather.

- Jason







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Old 05-26-2012, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah930 View Post
People also "upgrade" their cars with bigger diameter (17" or 18") wheels (or use modern Porsche wheels which require big spacers/adapters), which impacts unsprung weight. But they do it. Plenty of people who have "upgraded" their narrow body cars with a turbo tail...but no matching front spoiler.

And rarity in numbers doesn't always match street value. Otherwise turbo targas would be the bees knees, pricewise. But while they were made in fewer numbers than coupes and cabriolets, they usually trade for less money.

In the end, it's financially worth whatever someone else is willing to pay for it.

Personally, I'd be willing to pay a $10-15K premium for a 930 over narrowbody G-50 Carrera prices. But not necessarily more than that (my personal budget). I might pay a few thousand over G-50 prices for an M491-optioned car, but not $10-15K more. Again, my personal budget.
Fair enough not all upgrades are upgrades, but have you ever heard of a 930 owner swapping to Carrera parts to save weight and improve aero? I doubt it A tl is only a hundred or so pounds off of a NB. Maybe less if comparing to a nb car with spoiler. Not that big of a deal IMO.

I agree with you that a m491 is worth about a few grand more, when you get into the really low mile cars though Porsche prices start to get crazy though and all bets are off. Like you say its worth what someone will pay
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 911TurboLook View Post
Oh Snap - Do we have identical cars? (Except year) Mines 1986 Iris blue with black leather.

- Jason

[img]http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads20/P10402561338047851.jpg[/i

[img]http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads20/P10403191338047963.jpg[/i

[img]http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads20/P10403161338048053.jpg[/im
[img]http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads20/P10402751338048171.jpgimg]
Almost! Mine has blue interior and your paint is in much better shape! Beautiful car only 5 or 6 like ours according to the tl registry
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:29 PM
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Wide body 911 is arguably one of the best looking cars ever made. Why cant there be a choice of engines without some of us looking down our noses at the NA ones? Sheesh!
To the original question, who knows why people pay what they do for anything. If I was going to have a NA, I'd pay maybe 5k more than a flat sided one for one of the 491s. It would cost more than that to duplicate.
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oh snap View Post
Almost! Mine has blue interior and your paint is in much better shape! Beautiful car only 5 or 6 like ours according to the tl registry
Thanks! Almost twins! Your the only person I've have seen with an Iris blue exterior. Reason the paint is in such good condition is due to low mileage. (33k miles)

Love the color of Iris Blue! Pictures don't do justice!

- Jason
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Old 05-26-2012, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 911TurboLook View Post
Thanks! Almost twins! Your the only person I've have seen with an Iris blue exterior. Reason the paint is in such good condition is due to low mileage. (33k miles)

Love the color of Iris Blue! Pictures don't do justice!

- Jason
I know where another is, 1986 Iris blue with blue interior. A friend owns this one:
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Old 05-27-2012, 04:41 AM
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I am not trying to insult anyone who owns a M491 with this thread as stated several times by others the body style IMHO is the best looking style ever. I guess there are many valid points for the premium price but also as stated when the boost kicks in there is no other feeling like it you just can't get that from a NA car. Oh Snap if the case was that a super clean M491 was more than an average 930 that would make sense and sorry for starting another thread on this did not realize there were others. But I have seen super clean 930's for costing between 10k to 15k less than an M491 so to me this still makes no sense. I guess my love of the 930 just makes my opinion biased but either way after owning the "real thing" I feel that is the only way to go.
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Old 05-27-2012, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by fletcher0780 View Post
I know where another is, 1986 Iris blue with blue interior. A friend owns this one:
By any chance is your friends vin number: WP0AB0914GS121414? Or is that a turbo? Very nice looking cars!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike80911 View Post
I am not trying to insult anyone who owns a M491 with this thread as stated several times by others the body style IMHO is the best looking style ever. I guess there are many valid points for the premium price but also as stated when the boost kicks in there is no other feeling like it you just can't get that from a NA car. Oh Snap if the case was that a super clean M491 was more than an average 930 that would make sense and sorry for starting another thread on this did not realize there were others. But I have seen super clean 930's for costing between 10k to 15k less than an M491 so to me this still makes no sense. I guess my love of the 930 just makes my opinion biased but either way after owning the "real thing" I feel that is the only way to go.
Different people have different opinions. No insult taken. Having the pleasure of owning both I would say: Yes the boost is a thrill, but where I live, that boost is very dangerous. All the roads around here are curvy with very little straight aways. If the boost just happen to turn on the wrong time (I have to watch the tach constantly), off the cliff I would go. Saying the previous statement, I prefer to drive the M491 over the 930 up here with less worries. Both cars have advantages and disadvantages. Both are great cars and after driving both vehicles I understand why the M491's are as high if not higher than 930s. (Most people don't care about how much horse power, how fast you can go, and a lot hate the lag in the 930.) Also, the 80's styled Porsches are getting near the (being noticed) car collector stage due to the fact these cars are becoming collectable. The low production is a huge factor in why the M491's takes such a premium. There's a lot of demand but very little to pick from.

- Jason
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Last edited by 911TurboLook; 05-27-2012 at 09:56 AM..
Old 05-27-2012, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike80911 View Post
I am not trying to insult anyone who owns a M491 with this thread as stated several times by others the body style IMHO is the best looking style ever. I guess there are many valid points for the premium price but also as stated when the boost kicks in there is no other feeling like it you just can't get that from a NA car. Oh Snap if the case was that a super clean M491 was more than an average 930 that would make sense and sorry for starting another thread on this did not realize there were others. But I have seen super clean 930's for costing between 10k to 15k less than an M491 so to me this still makes no sense. I guess my love of the 930 just makes my opinion biased but either way after owning the "real thing" I feel that is the only way to go.
No worries, I'm not insulted, just surprised sometimes by view of the M491s. A difference in preference I can appreciate, but sometimes it seems to border on "hate." Maybe this is how targa owners feel


911TurboLook, if you bought your car from FL around the end of 2010 It is the car that made me fall in love with iris blue. I saw an iris M491 on eBay and loved it but it was low mile and pristine and thus out of my price range . Had I had an extra 10k or so I would have bought it. Then a few months later I found mine, which is more of a "driver" and within reach and here we are I didn't look at 930sbecause at the bottom end it would have been a gamble that I couldn't afford. I'm sure I'd love the extra 100hp but that skill have to wait for now. In the end theres never been a bad 911 and I'm quite happy with mine.

The low production low mile high priced anomalies are just part of the Porsche market that don't always make sense unless you are a collector with bottomless pockets.
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Old 05-27-2012, 10:44 AM
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Oh Snap - Yup that was me. Be glad you didn't buy it! Let me tell yea, it was a mistake for not getting a PPI or went and looked at the car. The car is in pristine condition right now but when I got the car it was in rough condition. I basically replaced every rubber part on the car, front spolier, front valence, front bumper, rear valence, carpet and just about everything else. I even rebuilt the transmission! (Car wasn't even drive-able). The seller was very distrustful. It's sad people are like this now days. Anyways a ton of $$$ and lots of my time the car is now in concours condition.

- Jason
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Last edited by 911TurboLook; 05-27-2012 at 11:21 AM..
Old 05-27-2012, 11:07 AM
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Just came across a beautiful black - 911 turbo look this weekend.. Yes it's nice.....but there is no comparison for sound and performance of 3.3 turbo or better... Or a young buck in his new mustang trying to challenge me....It ain't gonna happen. Performance 1st. Looks 2nd...Inmop

Walt
Old 05-27-2012, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 911TurboLook View Post
Oh Snap - Yup that was me. Be glad you didn't buy it! Let me tell yea, it was a mistake for not getting a PPI or went and looked at the car. The car is in pristine condition right now but when I got the car it was in rough condition. I basically replaced every rubber part on the car, front spolier, front valence, front bumper, rear valence, carpet and just about everything else. I even rebuilt the transmission! (Car wasn't even drive-able). The seller was very distrustful. It's sad people are like this now days. Anyways a ton of $$$ and lots of my time the car is now in concours condition.

- Jason
Sorry to hear that, I suppose that's the risk of low mile cars. All's well that ends well though, and now its perfect. Mine is the opposite. Needs a lot of little things, and a few bigger things, but overall it drives great. I bought it at 88k a year and a half ago and it will pass 100k by the end of summer. Bit by bit I hope to have it looking like yours
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Last edited by oh snap; 05-27-2012 at 03:12 PM..
Old 05-27-2012, 03:07 PM
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Sorry to hear that, I suppose that's the risk of low mile cars. All's well that ends well though, and now its perfect. Mine is the opposite. Needs a lot of little things, and a few bigger things, but overall it drives great. I bought it at 88k a year and a half ago and it will pass 100k by the end of summer. Bit by bit I hope to have it looking like yours
This car looks familiar... Did I read a thread about your buying experience? You bought the car in California and drove back to Canada or was that someone else? This car looks great. The all black rims go great with that car! Is the car lowered? (If so how much did you lower it?)

- Jason

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Old 05-27-2012, 05:18 PM
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