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DSPTurtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Suntree, Florida, USA
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Rotor for MSD

I am running an MSD on a '79 turbo engine. I already have the MSD coil and magnecore wires. But I would like to upgrade the rotor. Right now I have the standard 930 rev limiting rotor in there. What's a good option that will handle the higher voltages better?

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Old 06-11-2012, 10:11 AM
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A post from Jim Fairman:

The napa part number for that rotor is EP407

Note that this is a resistor-less rotor, which is necessary when running MSD systems.
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Mark H. 1987 930, GP White, Wevo shifter, Borla exhaust, stock everything else. The result of a massive Pelicanite good will fire recovery effort. Truely an open book, ready for the slippery slopes to modification.
Old 06-11-2012, 11:31 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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I tried to find online shops last year that sell those but could not find any that would ship to EU. Some online shops have those but only ship to NA.

Any tips how to get them on EU or ROW?
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79 930: HX40Super, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, BB+2*turbosmart38, WMI. Weight 1110kg
Old 06-11-2012, 11:43 PM
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Hey smurfbus, just to ask a question; how do you like the J&S and the gauge? I've seen some talk about them; but, your the first 930 owner I've seen with one.
Thanks Frank
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1982 930, K-27, BL adj. WUR, Rarlyl8 Headers and Hooligan muffler, MSD 6, 22 and 30mm torsion bars, poly bronze bushings 30mm raised spindles and custom valved Bilstein shocks (by Elephant Racing), monoballs front and rear (by Rennline), Alton 17" Fuchs, Fred Cook fuse panel
Old 06-12-2012, 02:32 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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Did not get much miles with it before my main harness burned at the nurburgring : (

I like some extra protection as I like to see how much timing the engine likes best over the NORM. I also had a crappy distributor (axial play fluctuated the timing) that is now repaired with tunable MAPS for ignition but I don't think I will get the car ready for this summer (motivation is gone for now) so I can't give my feedback on that one either.

There are few others running J&S with more milage so hopefully they will chime in.
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79 930: HX40Super, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, BB+2*turbosmart38, WMI. Weight 1110kg
Old 06-12-2012, 02:52 AM
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Thanks for the reply, if I was not leaving next week (I'll be gone for 9 months) I could probably get you a rotor real easy. Sorry...
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1982 930, K-27, BL adj. WUR, Rarlyl8 Headers and Hooligan muffler, MSD 6, 22 and 30mm torsion bars, poly bronze bushings 30mm raised spindles and custom valved Bilstein shocks (by Elephant Racing), monoballs front and rear (by Rennline), Alton 17" Fuchs, Fred Cook fuse panel
Old 06-12-2012, 03:49 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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No problem, I'm possibly getting one from Philip and I'm not in a hurry
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79 930: HX40Super, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, BB+2*turbosmart38, WMI. Weight 1110kg
Old 06-12-2012, 06:51 AM
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Actually I should get the rotor for my car, I've been running an MSD for a little while now. I have not checked the condition of the rotor (non rev limiting), but it was new when I put it in.
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1982 930, K-27, BL adj. WUR, Rarlyl8 Headers and Hooligan muffler, MSD 6, 22 and 30mm torsion bars, poly bronze bushings 30mm raised spindles and custom valved Bilstein shocks (by Elephant Racing), monoballs front and rear (by Rennline), Alton 17" Fuchs, Fred Cook fuse panel
Old 06-12-2012, 08:37 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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Get a new cap at the same time and check the plug wires resistance too to make sure all is in good working order. I bought MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor Wires for mine just to make sure.
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79 930: HX40Super, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, BB+2*turbosmart38, WMI. Weight 1110kg
Old 06-12-2012, 12:31 PM
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Dr. Rollo
 
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MSD's can eat the heck out of a rotor or cause misfire the trick is to index the metal blade on the rotor(s) and then nip off or cut off some metal to cause the rotor to have a point (quasi) not too much metal though i met the original engineers who started the company (they were Raytheon Missile engineers (like me) and they had one of their first shows in El Paso - their facility was across the street from Raytheon in essence) they had a carbon rod with a printed tip and the early MSD6 would blow a 4" + spark at high rev..also if you use an MSD 6series - they recommend you open the gap of the plugs- have done it on many cars i have had all (most) with MSD or motec distributor-less lost spark set ups...my VW motors always had problems until i did the file the rotor to a semi pit (equal distance out from the index make on the rotor tip) - then MSD issued a VW dist - but i used Bosch o09's and 050's some re-curved with mostly MSD 6AL's with Mallory oil filled coils- my 964 RSA is going full out MoTec to lose the archaic distributor, and ignition electronics
Old 06-12-2012, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roland_shaak View Post
MSD's can eat the heck out of a rotor or cause misfire the trick is to index the metal blade on the rotor(s) and then nip off or cut off some metal to cause the rotor to have a point (quasi) not too much metal though i met the original engineers who started the company (they were Raytheon Missile engineers (like me) and they had one of their first shows in El Paso - their facility was across the street from Raytheon in essence) they had a carbon rod with a printed tip and the early MSD6 would blow a 4" + spark at high rev..also if you use an MSD 6series - they recommend you open the gap of the plugs- have done it on many cars i have had all (most) with MSD or motec distributor-less lost spark set ups...my VW motors always had problems until i did the file the rotor to a semi pit (equal distance out from the index make on the rotor tip) - then MSD issued a VW dist - but i used Bosch o09's and 050's some re-curved with mostly MSD 6AL's with Mallory oil filled coils- my 964 RSA is going full out MoTec to lose the archaic distributor, and ignition electronics
That's probably good advice but I'm not sure it's all that necessary for just a standard application. I've been running with an MSD6AL for the better part of almost 6 years with a non-resistor rotor, gapping my plugs at .040, and running with 12 degrees static timing advance. The rotor still looks fine, as does the cap.

You ought to shoot a couple picts of what you're describing. Might be a worthwhile adaptation. Thanks.
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Mark H. 1987 930, GP White, Wevo shifter, Borla exhaust, stock everything else. The result of a massive Pelicanite good will fire recovery effort. Truely an open book, ready for the slippery slopes to modification.
Old 06-12-2012, 08:19 PM
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Dr. Rollo
 
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Wink MSD and rotor

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark houghton View Post
That's probably good advice but I'm not sure it's all that necessary for just a standard application. I've been running with an MSD6AL for the better part of almost 6 years with a non-resistor rotor, gapping my plugs at .040, and running with 12 degrees static timing advance. The rotor still looks fine, as does the cap.

You ought to shoot a couple picts of what you're describing. Might be a worthwhile adaptation. Thanks.
yeah me too...but in talks with the MSD folks (i think) in the past (around 1990 or so) they indicated and - on their EARLY (complete installation booklets) not the one you get in the MSD package when you buy but a separate doc- still unpacking if i find it (may have tossed it i had so many MSD docs i could had a library of rollo- anyway- they i think are the ones that suggested it (i had small dist. cap diameters then like a 356, 912, 914-4 early 911's have 050, 009, MG, and Mercedes, Mallory -

I could see the carbon tracks they said to look for. So i looked at them (couple of cars) and found carbon tracks inside (having been a high power LASER tuner in my wicked past - i ALWAYS prevent hand oils or dirt intrusion by using latex gloves or if i blow it- at least 90% pure and having had more than few do the same thing (the lamp exciters) i realized the issue(same precautions for halogen light replacement BTW-).

so from then on i shaped my rotor tips to look like a tee-pee out to the tip- wide at the base narrow (But not TOOOO narrow) at the tip with the cuts or, filings equidistant from each side of the rotor index (zero) "gouge" in Bosch rotor (a lot of them but not all have the gouge) problems solved. no problem with arching (you VW air cooled guys- it works for you too) if your are still using distributors- wasted spark from a nice MoTec/AEM/(RANT COMING Electromotive IF you want to walk) the TEC-II i bought new back in the day became an anchor after it decided that the coolant temps were -54 or so negative degrees below zero a ton (like -54+ john at AEM said he had seen similar before when and opamp hit the rails of course E.M. potted their stuff back then so you aren't going to fix it) when it went stupid it loaded my cylinders like a hose was turned on...sent it in "no problems found" twice -

i am an experienced wiring dude..EE, Air Force - NASA trained soldering cat and solder ALL my connections i make sure ALL my stuff is electrically bonded and grounded correctly or BETTER than stock bonded (after two 924 turbo debacles) IE having a nice 23 year old Jewish girl push starting a one week old new 924t back in 1980 in front of a very nice and well known San Fernando valley (theeee valley) deli with WINDOWS (more whining and stuff ensued), delco coolant sensor fine- did it again- it is now living off of Fort Casey Washington in the Admiralty strait swimming with the fishes- or crabs- a little rant)

I bought a MoTec and all was fine - same sensors and most of the wiring was the same (raychem) same same same not disconnected from the sensors just re-terminated for the motec connector- and they said it was me...oh well...MoTec or whoever your fave is.....driving some wasted spark coils - GOLDEN (or if you want to really amp it up you can get a new version that deals with 6 coils..at the plugs etc) that is cool i will NEVER use carbs again (idle jet cleaning in the desert...on roads not dirt- not fun..the wife makes much noise..massive gas filtering still clogged idle jets and then to drive for a day ride from sea level to high altitude do you want to re-jet your carbs at a rest spot (for max perfomance ya know)?

heck no...and passing SMOG...just go stocimetric most of the time, and lean where it should be..i passed some hideously bad a$$ed motors that way (no smog laws where i live now.... )...anyway it is something to consider. the cool thing is you go stoic then pass (or re-tweak if needed) then move to a nice spot close by and upload your "correct" maps and drive home with a big ole smile (most of the time).

I love webers, but i am taking my last Italian made 45 DCOE and an 44 IDF sending them for rebuilding then they are going into a nice curly quilted maple display case (i'd love to flame the quilt and have it finished like a burst les paul) R.I.P.

- FI from now on for me- same sound, less hassles....valley girls do not like baking in the desert while you clean jets or replace them with the clean set you carry...if it hasn't happened it will...i had multi micron filters - pre pump post pump and at the carbs (each bank)...rants are over..

I just read a DARPA R.F.P. and i am not believing what i read- me brains are in W.T. heck mode????the brain is hurting big time.
they're gonna be listening.........

here is some brain burn stuff (some generic not of Porsche- but CAN relate and great tips to be found).
from an MSD tech off of the link below not Porsche but it relates well to my noise

"There are a couple of methods to adjust the phasing on the distributor. I did not recognize the part number you gave me for your distributor, so I take it that it is not an MSD product. Here are a couple of ways that can be applied.

1. Adjust the rotor tip by filing it to one side or the other. Most rotor tips are wide enough to allow for some adjustment at that point.
2. If you have an MSD Distributor, you can use the MSD Cap-A-Dapt assembly. This part uses an adjustable rotor that can be phased independently from the distributor.
3. If you are using a distributor with vacuum advance, the advance mechanism can be removed and then the advance base can be rotated to correct the phasing. After adjusting the vacuum advance base plate you would then lock it in that position.
4. Send the distributor to the original manufacture for adjustment."

my version of this i believe was not from MSD but from either hot rod VW or one of those (maybe even a berg book) it has worked for all my cars over the years where needed (i have since when using a dist - either Mallory or MSD no problems...

Phasing an MSD rotor
http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedFiles/MSDIgnitioncom/Support/frm28392_tech_bulletin_rotor_phasing.pdf

Shoptalkforums.com • View topic - Distributor versus Distributorless Ignition Systems

I phase with a computer these days if using a dist. (getting ready to dump the 964 dual dist soon....MoTec M84 or 800, not sure still mulling it over for the beast i am going to build remember (no smog laws here)..but i have found i have had some pretty clean burning cars when - a pro sets them up (in pass the test mode i just moved to the no SMOG spot....i just get them close then let professionals tune the ECU/advance first on a dyno after basic set up then on the road in real-time real loads, hills valleys straights squirts out of curves etc.

I had a blast tuning my electromotive it was really easy- but after doing some shake downs at the old SIR and driving home and loading up on the old esses in Renton so i was walking to a freaking Denny's twice-to "phone home rollo" to mommy (wife)..no more.....(that rant was for the Seattle-Redmond guys)

BTW i am a green dude...but when it comes to my hot rods 0 i want to OWN all the Dino juice they can pump out of the ground...as required...

Seattle east-side guys one of the best spots to road tune is Hyw 9 going to fro Snohomish between Clearview and the bottom of the hill and Elliot road out of Clearview along the Snohomish river to Highbridge road, then through the old prison farm, then to the first right just before the Monroe bridge Ben Howard road) to go up the Skykomish river to sultan- around the basin then to Index for a beer and burger at zeke's...great tuning- then up to Skykomish- more beer (not much) though....and back - if it isn't tuned then SHOOT IT.....Rollo out to bed to think of cyber warfare....it's going to get real ugly..lock your Routers down and computers/files - outta here

Old 06-13-2012, 08:42 PM
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