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930 as Track Car

Hi:
New to this forum. I'm looking to add dedicated track car (been using my 01 TT) and am considering a slant nose 930 that is stripped and track prepped. Don't know if anyone can take a shot at these questions:
-I have only heard stories about 930 street cars being a challenging drive. The owner of the slant nose said his 930 is quite manageable, planted and easy to drive, despite the horsepower. Any thoughts?
-When compared to
-Owner indicated little to no turbo lag (I don't yet know the setup) on the track. I'm certain the turbo has been modified, but again only recall stories of turbo kicking in intensely on street 930.
-These cars are commanding a premium to race prepped Carreras of same vintage. Owner, who is obviously biased towards the 930, said I would be wanting more with regular Carrera. I know it's all about the driver and Carreras can be worthy competitors, but I know what he meant was on the straights against higher horsepower cars. There was no question nothing was passing this 930!
-I'm only intermediate but am up to the challenge of learning a car like this; I just don't want to be in over my head if this is purely an advanced car (I recognize that any track car without driver aids requires you to be on your game).

Many thanks to anyone that can share some thoughts/experiences, Fred


Last edited by fgaston; 06-25-2012 at 06:28 AM..
Old 06-25-2012, 06:24 AM
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A 930 can be a handful on the track in stock trim.
I would drive your tt for a couple more years until reaching the advanced level prior to going down this road.
A 930 is nothing like a awd tt, more akin to a 996 gt3, not a nanny in sight.
GL
c
Old 06-25-2012, 11:17 AM
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Hi Fred,

I drive a 930 on the track, bought it as a track rat and have done the engine/gearbox rebuild with modfied this and that including close ratio third and fourth and twin plug sequential EFI. The car is an absolute hoot to drive at the DE events I attend.

How much track driving do you do and which tracks/run group? Then I'll give you more of an opinion.

Dave
Old 06-25-2012, 11:18 AM
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Thank you both for your feedback. The car in mind is essentially a very modified track car-sounds like Dave's car--it's been stripped, engine/turbo mods, full roll cage, fuel cell, track suspension, Hoosiers, etc.

Dave: I'm an intermediate with SCDA, PCA & NASA, but only have 8 track days. I plan on 10 more this year. I run mainly at Lime Rock, but have driven Pocono, NJMP (Lightning), New Hampshire and Watkins Glen.

TT Surgeon: I was skeptical too, but owner insisted it was not a hard car to drive because of grip with slicks and low weight (2,200 pounds). That said, I respect your advice to perhaps go further with my TT. The TT, as you know, is not an ideal track car, with the weight. While I'm sure the AWD & PSM has 'saved' me from mistakes, before I invest in suspension, brakes, etc. I was thinking about going down the GT3 route or 80's dedicated track car. This owner did offer to spend 2 days teaching me this car at his home track, but perhaps you are right this is as advanced a car as the GT3 and better left for drivers that have honed their skills.

Thanks, Fred
Old 06-25-2012, 11:27 AM
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If you only have 8 track days, honestly I would stick with the stock tt on street tires, hone your skills.
Old 06-25-2012, 11:39 AM
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8 days & the word intermediate don't really fit with a track prepared 930.

I have been instructing for years with PCA and BMW in Canada and the Glen and Mid-Ohio in the states. Something in the 30's for days per year and just beginning the second year with the 930 I have been sideways more in the 930 then all the years before in my other car. A 1988 BMW turbocharged 450 hp M6 with only ABS as a nanny.

A GT3 even nanny free will be much easier to drive at pace.

A highly capable car with nannies or a brute like a 930 will both slow your learning. You will develop car handling skills and track awareness faster in a stockish pre ABS 911. Not as much fun being passed all the time, but you will be a better driver sooner.

Grab the 930 and put it in storage until you are ready. You will love it when that time arrives.

Dave
Old 06-25-2012, 12:01 PM
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I have been tracking my 930 for 8-years now. The car is a monster on the track. The current owner is right that massive sticky tires will save you so long as you never lift. That being said though it was a VERY steep learning curve for me. I had a real hard time getting comfortable with the power curve in corners and have had more than my fair share of off course excursions. Most of my buddies that I drive with don't like the somewhat unpredictable nature of the car. Truth be told I think its actually quite predictable but you need to be very fast with corrections and really know the car inside and out before you're going to get anywhere near 8/10ths of its abilities. That all being said though... there are very few things that are more gratifying that really driving a challenging car like that well. Especially when you can chase down cars worth 3x the money.
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:10 PM
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Dave:

If change out the suspension on my 996 TT, go with track tires and turn PSM off, can I still develop car handling skills/track awareness, or are the AWD, weight and PSM a hindrance to learning. I have the means for a dedicated track car and I'm at the point where I either do the mods on the 996TT or leave it as a nice street car.

Besides 80's Carrera, what would other good considerations be for a track car? At my level could I learn to drive a GT3 and improve my skills? I want to get better, make a smart decision, etc. but don't enjoy getting passed, so looking for right balance.

Thanks, Fred
Old 06-25-2012, 12:11 PM
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Are you running events where you have instructors or coaches? or out on your own?
Old 06-25-2012, 12:19 PM
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Midlife930: instructor 1st session at new track; solo thereafter

930LDR: I appreciate your honesty in terms of learning curve and challenge of 930.

Consensus seems to be advanced/challenging cars, while you can learn to drive them with some off track excursions, can very well impede your skill development, as they want to be driven at the limit and are extremely unforgiving. Sounds like either stick with my TT or get a more mild mannered/well behaved car without driver aids to learn driver skills on, and seat time, seat time, seat time.....

Cheers, Fred
Old 06-25-2012, 12:26 PM
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Fred,

I would suggest a milder car for now, off track events are often fine but also can be Armco events. Also, I have taken rides with fellow instructors who could use coaching and been given coaching by others. Have someone more experienced in your car as often as possible and learn from them. I know running solo the goal but locking in bad habits might be the result. I have had students in modern driver aid cars who believed they were doing an awesome job on the track. Fact is they couldn't feel the controls at work. One good guy in an Audi announced he was going to finish the weekend, last few sessions with the aids off. He told me this between corners, hit the switch and spun off track at the next corner.

We can all learn all of the time. This is a big part of what makes driving on the track such a blast, always getting better.

I am pretty quick around a track. There are always fast guys and slower guys.

If was me, I would stop abusing the 996 & get a track car that was going to do me for a season or two and then move to a GT3 or by then maybe a GT3RS. Pick one up already prepared by the guy who stepped in too deep before learning and never got over being afraid of his car ........

Regardless, enjoy,
Dave
Old 06-25-2012, 01:07 PM
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Fred,
If I were in your shoes I would buy that track 930 (if it's reasonably priced), detune it (i.e. turn down the boost until you're more comfortable with the handling) and replace race tires with street tires so as to keep the speed lower allowing you to slide around sooner while being more forgiving (maybe I'm wrong here). But I admit that I'm not sure how 2200 lb would feel comparing to 2800 lb my 930 weighs. Also, admit that I've only been on the track once with a good instructor.
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Old 06-25-2012, 02:26 PM
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Go for it.

A car that is a little over your head is a dominatrix of a teacher. I went from Formula Ford to a 500+ HP '66 Shelby with vintage brakes (rear drums), and what a hoot of a Drivers Education that was.

Also, you might consider going to Bondurants Advanced school. They really push you hard to extend your limits. I think they are using Corvettes now, but when I went they had 302 Mustangs on race tires, and it was a ton of fun. One of my instructors is now a Daytona 24 hour winner.

Last edited by M5guy; 06-25-2012 at 03:26 PM..
Old 06-25-2012, 03:12 PM
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I think it really depends,

1. The 930 is not exactly infact a cheaper machine, if you do it right and do not cut corners that is.

2. Driving on the street, highway or some mountian road is very different to that of a circuit, speedway or raceway.

3. It really comes down to knowing not just your limits but recognizing the vehicles and
having what is known as SA / Situational awareness. This becomes important when you
are at pace near or on or a little over the limit or heck way over and knowing what to do.

4. If you really love this track 930, then just focus on the chassis, suspension, bushings, and
transmission and braking system. Focus on having a reliable machine, response is more important then sheer power.

5. It really depends on what you want, as a track car if you are trying to go racing the GT3
or GT3RS might be really a good direction.

6. Or if you love the 996 Turbo, focus on that. The 996 Turbo is an amazing machine. You can improve this machine further. The cost oneway or another is going to add up, if you do it right.

Good luck, and happy motoring.
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:50 PM
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I have a 930 track car and will agree with everthing that has been said here.

It is expensive to operate.

It is demanding.

You make a deal with it. It won't kill you and you won't wreck it.

It's a hell of a lot of fun if you really want to learn to drive but MUCH track experience is required.

I lost the original source of this quote that goes something like this;"You go fast into a corner in a 930. It you lift - you spin. If you give it gas - you spin. Make up your mind - you have a millisecond to decide!"

Jim
Old 06-25-2012, 07:16 PM
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Been tracking my 930 for a few years ... Key is modulating the turbo, it's like having two gas pedals. Initially I would go through a box of Depends per track day, now I'm down to half a box.
Old 06-26-2012, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmcc View Post
I have a 930 track car and will agree with everthing that has been said here.

It is expensive to operate.

It is demanding.

You make a deal with it. It won't kill you and you won't wreck it.

It's a hell of a lot of fun if you really want to learn to drive but MUCH track experience is required.

I lost the original source of this quote that goes something like this;"You go fast into a corner in a 930. It you lift - you spin. If you give it gas - you spin. Make up your mind - you have a millisecond to decide!"

Jim
Love the quote!
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Old 06-26-2012, 04:47 AM
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I don't get the "you should drive a milder car" responses. Drive whatever you want. Recognize that the 930 is an old bucket that goes really fast, but has no traction control, stability control, abs, etc.

Two words: throttle modulation.

Why is this so difficult? If you drive with your head, and not your penis, it is not difficult at all. The only car I have tracked is my 930. I still have a long way to go, and much to learn, but keeping the car under control is not a problem. I find that the car is extremely communicative and if you are tuned into it, the limits of traction are obvious. The key is to ease up to those limits so you can back off slightly vs. overshooting them by a mile (and heading off-track).
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Old 06-26-2012, 05:03 AM
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Wholeheartedly agree with Jacob (waazzupp!) here... well said.

I think it comes down to the person - not everyone / anyone should attempt to hone their skills with a 930. I am a firm believer that the right person can aspire to the equipment - it's like when I started skiing as a kid, when I'd get newer better skis my skills and technique increased immensely. Tracking a 930 can be tremendously rewarding and if done right can really up your game.

You've got what sounds like a fair amount of seat time, tho little instruction. While I think a GT3 would be an enormously better track tool - mostly due to gearbox and powerband and throttle response with the 930 but those can very certainly be ironed out / dialed in properly - a 930 is a whole lot of fun to hustle around. When done right.

I'll also agree w/ that these are not cheap to campaign, a GT3 would prob be better there again - but you did say you had the means so that's maybe a non-issue for you (I put 200mi on a GT3RS the other weekend, helluva car right there - just sayin heh heh).

I did my 1st instructional DE in a GT3Mk1 - heck 1/2 the session was in the rain!!! Someone else's GT3 mind you - ha! I'd only autox'd a ton and done a non-instructed event @ Lime Rock in my 2.3-16 prior. And the only other car I've since DE'd was my 930.

Did that hamper my learning or put me at some catastrophic demise? Hellno! I'd argue it allowed me to learn an arseload!!!

And, I'll add, I found both the GT3 / 930 damn easy to pretty much go bauls out with once I learned the line. But again, it's the person - I can find the limits of any car quickly and easily (IMO) and have done enough WOT sideways snow driving to know how to catch it when it goes, and I know my limits and that of the situation.

Short version: look within yourself, you know you - will you rise to the occassion or cave under the pressure? I think you be fine, personally. I do like the suggestion tho to maybe go without race rubber at first, that's prob a good idea 8-).

Good luck, and ENJOY!
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Last edited by krasuskyp; 06-26-2012 at 06:44 AM..
Old 06-26-2012, 06:41 AM
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I track my G-50 gearbox 930, with 315/35-17 tires in the rear and its very very fast but not overly difficult to drive even with dyno tested 450hp. Just go with an instructor through PCA at a DE and you will have so much fun you'll be so glad you got the 930. The 930 after all is similar to a 911 just with better suspension and bigger tires handling wise. Power delivery is not linear so it takes a little practice to anticipate when the boost will come on, but really the gas pedal is not an on/off switch, you can and must learn to modulate the throttle. It only feels like an on/off switch when the boost kicks in, but thats usually because the driver is driving it that way. I can easily feed power in part way through a turn and go on full throttle just before a turn exit and blast onto the straight. Its addictive!!! More raw and more fun than a modern Ferrari, Lambo, Lotus, Corvette, ect. I know, I did a track day with all those other cars and my 930 is by far the most fun, and just as fast anything you will encounter. I feel like my 930 is going to be enough car for me for a very long time for doing DE events and lapping days at the track, I think I could get bored or eventually want more with a lesser car. All this being said, my first season with my 930 I was scared in general and the car horrified me a few times, I did spin once. A healthy dose of respect and some good instruction is the best thing for a 930. Good luck, post pics if you get the car!

Old 06-26-2012, 11:54 AM
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