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-   911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/)
-   -   go ahead and flame me - no start issue (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/696378-go-ahead-flame-me-no-start-issue.html)

cellison 08-20-2012 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billjam (Post 6923357)
Charles,
Sorry I don't have any specific help for you problem, but I have been there and know how frustrating this can be. This idea might help make it easier.

One of the things that really pissed me off with the whole trouble-shooting process was having to remove and refit the intercooler each time I changed something, so I made up an intercooler bypass pipe. This allows me to run the engine and drive the car (if I tie it down so that boost doesn't blow it off!) without having to refit the IC each time I want to try and start the engine. It is all PVC plumbing fittings glued together plus a bit of judicious work with a heat gun.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1345466895.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1345466934.jpg

awesome!!!! the white PVC really looks good w/ the grand prix white paint :) it took me about 15 mintues to put the IC back getting everything lined up. maybe practice will reduce that time once you knw the tricks. i thought someone said there is relay or something? that you can do that will fool the meetering plate to raise and activate the pumps when you try to crank it?

cellison 08-20-2012 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2369488 (Post 6922592)
I have been fighting the no start issue off and on for over a year. I have smelled fuel from the eng. compartment etc. I dont drive the car much so when I do many times the battery was low so I would have to charge it to get the car started. Even after charging it was sometimes difficult to start.
A month ago i came home from a 3 week trip and decided to go for a spirited drive. Starter turned over maybe three times and nothing. I pulled the battery out and took to the local Exide store. They tested and found one cell was bad. I replaced the battery and have had no more starting problems, whether it sits a week, two weeks hot or cold it starts right up.:

my battery is 6 years old. i have put it back on the charger a couple time during this period as i have run it down several times. yesterday, i had the charger on it and when i pulled it off, I and measured 13.6v static at the battery. i may have a cell crapped out, but i think i am at least geeting juice.

cellison 08-20-2012 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slyguy (Post 6923554)
I have not read all the responses but Ive always enlisted an inductive timing light to check for spark at both plug wires and coil wires. You can get 12v power from the rear relay panel and see the light while youre cranking the engine.

+1. i got a timming light today and plan to do what you suggest. that should hopefuly issolate it. if i still do not get spark/light, i plan to pull the "rebuilt" ECU box off and see if i can find a car to stick it into to see if it is working. QUESTION: when i plug my ECU box in another car, do i need to physically ground the box to the other car? it being cast iron or something and attached to an aluminum plate i would not think so.....Last time, i plugged mine in the other 930 and set it next to hos ECU (still mounted) and it would not start, and ECU Drs said mine was shot hence the rebuild.

oilonly 08-20-2012 03:52 PM

cellison great idea. Looking at your engine I notice an MSD coil yet you have the bosch CDI? Thought they were not compatible. JMHO

Tt surgeon 08-20-2012 05:54 PM

Yes, the cdi and coil should match.

cellison 08-21-2012 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilonly (Post 6924609)
cellison great idea. Looking at your engine I notice an MSD coil yet you have the bosch CDI? Thought they were not compatible. JMHO

the white car is billjam's not mine. i curently have a bosh coil / bosh CDI, but if my "new/old" coil is found to be in fact bad i was now thinking about getting a MSD blaster coil.....but if its not compatible w/ a bosh CDI then i'll do something different. i did see a picture of another 79 930 w/ a bosh CDI and MSD coil.......wish i could find it.

cellison 08-21-2012 03:28 AM

very timely thread (below) on the MSD coil / Bosh CDI compatibility question. thanks for bringing this to my attention.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/697025-msd-8202-coil-cdi.html

cellison 08-21-2012 04:06 PM

well i took the timing light and hooked it up to the coil to dist wire plug and did not get any light when the car was started. it appears my next step is to pull the new/old coil and CDI back out to verify those are are good (or hopefully confirm one is bad). More questions:

1.) is there another bench test i can perform on the coil other than checking resistance to see its it is ok?

2.) when i plug my ECU box in another car to check out, do i need to physically ground the box to the other car? it being cast iron or something and attached to an aluminum plate i would not think so.....Last time, i plugged mine in the other 930 and set it next to hos ECU (still mounted) and it would not start, and ECU Drs said mine was shot hence the rebuild.

thanks for everyone's continued help. maybe this thread will die soon.

billjam 08-22-2012 02:26 AM

That's interesting info regarding the use of MSD 8202 coil with Bosch CDI.
The MSD coil on my car was recommended by others when I was trying to track down an ignition problem a few months ago, so I bought one to try.
It works fine, but as it happens, so does the original coil because the problem was elsewhere in the wiring.
I think I'll swap them again just to be sure. Definitely don't want to cook my CDI.
Thanks for the tip.

jpnovak 08-22-2012 08:55 AM

Have you checked the "green" wire coming from the distributor? My guess is that you are not getting a trigger signal at the CDI due to a bad wire. There are many threads on this.

If you have an osilloscope you can check the signal to the CDI. You might be able to pick it up with a Digital MM set to AC if the range goes low enough.

cellison 08-22-2012 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpnovak (Post 6928133)
Have you checked the "green" wire coming from the distributor? My guess is that you are not getting a trigger signal at the CDI due to a bad wire. There are many threads on this.

If you have an osilloscope you can check the signal to the CDI. You might be able to pick it up with a Digital MM set to AC if the range goes low enough.

Jamie, i checked the green wire for continuity (looked good) i did alo get a low volage reading from the distributor back to he CDI harness when trying to star the car. i don't have an ocilloscope. I assume the green wire is ok?

schmidlapp 08-22-2012 05:06 PM

Sounds like a similar issue I had a year ago. no start, no spark. after replacing ignition box, coil, rotor, wires, plugs, still no start.
Check the big harness plug in connector in the engine compartment left side near the ignition box.
I had bad corrosion on the connector and had to do a hardwire jumper.
Make sure you have 12 volts coming into the ignition box, make sure you have good grounds as well. I agree an o-scope on the dizzy wire would be a good check as well.
good luck, cars are getting old and electrics do act up with age...

cellison 08-25-2012 05:26 AM

Quick update. i have had several on the board reach out to me to provide valuable "on the phone tech support", and the best part is i did not have to call India :) (poke at where my companies IT support is located). Without this board i may not be in this hobby how deep i am. One board member is providing me a good working Bosh CDI, good bosh black coil, non rev limiter rotor, ignition delay relay, and new green wire to help with my diagnosis. i am taking some vacation next week, so i will resolve this one way or the other.

cellison 08-30-2012 11:26 AM

Well to close this thread out, i didn't have the coil wired corectly. I rewired it and barly hit the started and it fired right up. Best sound in the world at that this moment. The lesson learned for me is to label stuff properly.

jsveb 08-30-2012 11:49 AM

Great news. Congrats!

jwasbury 08-30-2012 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellison (Post 6945198)
Well to close this thread out, i didn't have the coil wired corectly. I rewired it and barly hit the started and it fired right up. Best sound in the world at that this moment. The lesson learned for me is to label stuff properly.


Good news and congratulations. In addition to (or instead of) labelling, I find that snapping a load of digital photos is very helpful to refer back to when trying to put things back together. A recent example was when I pulled my front bumper. Rather than label the front running/turn signal wiring, I just snapped a close up shot with my cell-phone cam. When it was time to put it all back, I just looked at the photo to make sure I got the wires back correctly.

cellison 08-31-2012 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwasbury (Post 6945543)
Good news and congratulations. In addition to (or instead of) labelling, I find that snapping a load of digital photos is very helpful to refer back to when trying to put things back together. A recent example was when I pulled my front bumper. Rather than label the front running/turn signal wiring, I just snapped a close up shot with my cell-phone cam. When it was time to put it all back, I just looked at the photo to make sure I got the wires back correctly.

that's good idea Jacob.


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