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umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 441
EFI is always an option, although you are almost over the line there with CIS....


4. Mercedes v8 fuel head, a little bit of mucking around with the plumbing due to the fuel feeds being in slightly different locations to yours

0 438 100 088 is still WUR based but being a US model also has the lambda adjustment circuit which can be defeated to full max or controlled via FrankenCIS

0 438 101 018 or 0 438 101 016 is the CIS-E unit I have on my 928 and I'll happily send you a DPR interface via Dkubus if you decide to go this way

both are cheaply available on eBay for around 200 USD and I'm sure equivalent euro units are fairly common in the UK
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 12-04-2015, 01:09 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #241 (permalink)
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Hi Steve,

Top one is off a Euro Mercedes 380 / 500.

Any of these two any good?


eBay :

MERCEDES 380 M116 V8 FUEL DISTRIBUTOR INJECTION METERING HEAD 0438100111 | eBay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111578572399?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3

Last edited by gavinc69; 12-04-2015 at 10:55 AM..
Old 12-04-2015, 10:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #242 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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from the Bosch documentation 111 is fitted to the 5.0 litre motor, so definitely worth experimenting, plus alloy adjustable over your existing cast iron unit

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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 12-04-2015, 05:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #243 (permalink)
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Thanks Steve, part is on its way to me.

The SC FD has its fuel feed, return and WUR connections on the back, a right PITA to get to! The Merc FD has its connections on the front so I'll have to extend the fuel lines to fit them. Also by the looks of the position of the Merc connections I may to have to irreversibly cut into the plastic air box to be able to fit it, not sure yet


Current 0 438 100 031 FD install:




This is a Merc 0 438 100 111 FD install :



At the moment I'm thinking the injector fuel lines should still reach OK and hoping the banjo fittings are threads are of the same size as used on the Merc FD

Then I need to work out which is fuel feed, return, WUR on both FD's etc


Look's like I may have to cut out this section and then have to sort something out with the air filter etc :


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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3

Last edited by gavinc69; 12-05-2015 at 07:40 AM..
Old 12-05-2015, 07:25 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #244 (permalink)
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Looking at the images of both FD's installed I'm starting to think it will not work.
The Merc FD I'm assuming is physically bigger than the SC FD due to it having 8 instead for 6 fuel lines.
My SC FD is already really close to the air flow intake bonnet, so if the body of the Merc FD is much more than a say 5mm wider on that side it may not fit...
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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3
Old 12-05-2015, 07:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #245 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
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main body of the v8 units I have here is ~108mm across from flat to flat
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 12-05-2015, 04:40 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #246 (permalink)
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Measured the SC FD tonight at 95mm across.
Due to it being such a tight close fit anyway I don't think an FD of 108mm will work, even if it did mount on it would be just about, if not touching the air flow intake bonnet and it will defiantly block access to the 3mm idle mixture screw!

The Merc FD should be here tomorrow so I'll measure that and post the results.
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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3
Old 12-07-2015, 10:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #247 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
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blocking the adjustment screw is probably not a big issue as FrankenCIS has the mixture control as long as the basics are within spec.

from what I can see from the mounting bolt pattern, the mercedes unit - if it fits - should be oriented with the fuel feed/return connections on the same back side as your current unit so the airbox shouldn't need to be modified.



An alternative option might be to try a Mercedes 6 cyl CIS-E head. 0438101012
better control than WUR based from both precision and range perspectives, but more work as a suitable updraft air plate housing would need to be found as well.
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 12-07-2015, 01:39 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #248 (permalink)
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After some consideration and sleepless nights I've decided to keep the original CIS intake runners and cut the air box down to install a Bitz Racing EFI kit, or at least half of one, I'll use the MicroSquirt ECU and sensors.

EFI thread here :

EFI with Carrera intake on turbo 3.0 SC
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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3
Old 12-24-2015, 08:26 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #249 (permalink)
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I have ordered these injectors :

ACC-150136

They are exactly the same as the injectors Bitzracing recommend apart from they are 36lbs instead of 30lbs so should do the job and be an easy setup.

I also ordered the part EFI kit today and amazingly Tony posted it today (Christmas Eve) you don't get much better than that, thanks Tony

I cut the air box down today, very quick and easy to do, I'll post pics asap.
I will temporarily use the plastic air box and see how it goes.
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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3
Old 12-24-2015, 08:32 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #250 (permalink)
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Cut down air box (with ally plate stuck in place to cover the pop off hole) :







Seeing as the Cold Start Injector is not required I made a small ally plate and stuck/screwed it back on :

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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3
Old 01-03-2016, 06:42 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #251 (permalink)
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Injector's have arrived from Summit and Bitzracing partial kit should be here in a day or two.
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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3
Old 01-03-2016, 06:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #252 (permalink)
 
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Gavin, I like what you are doing.

Question: instead of simply sealing the old pop-off valve, wouldn't it be a good idea to install a bov in this location with a signal from the very same place. This should serve as a very responsive bov as well as a "plenum-saver"?
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Carrera 3.0 1975
930 1978 OEM Matte Schwartz, ANDIAL IC, BL WUR, SC cams. LMA-3 w. XD-16 and CP transducer
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Old 01-03-2016, 10:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #253 (permalink)
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Didn't think of that, can a BOV be mounted after the throttle body? I've only seen then pre throttle body before.
Now that popoff plate is in there I've got no chance of getting it out with all that Epoxy glue...

It would of been nice to open the air box and remove the cold start injection divider thingy. Without it I think airflow in the plenum would be much better. But the plastic box is temporary until I get a metal one to replace it.
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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3
Old 01-03-2016, 10:45 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #254 (permalink)
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You are right about positioning before the TB
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Jesper
Carrera 3.0 1975
930 1978 OEM Matte Schwartz, ANDIAL IC, BL WUR, SC cams. LMA-3 w. XD-16 and CP transducer
www.stauningwhisky.dk
Old 01-03-2016, 01:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #255 (permalink)
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Bitzracing kit and injectors all turned up in the new year.

I have cleaned all the intake runners and removed the CIS injector sleeves then installed the EFI injector sleeves :



Also installed a new crankcase to oil tank hose as the original was looking bad :



I am just waiting now on some 18mm vacuum line and an 18mm air filter for the AAR before I put the intake runners and cut down air box back on. I want to get everything connected the rear of the air box that needs to be there before getting it in place, otherwise I will be a PITA to get to the back of it when its installed.

Fuel rails are also made up and read to go on as and when.
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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3
Old 01-16-2016, 08:15 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #256 (permalink)
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Progressed a bit more today.
I have now got the intake back on and both injector rails installed plus the AAR connected back up and in place.

Intake before install :



Vacuum ports on rear of TB :

Top is going to the AAR (above throttle plate)
Small one just below is going to dizzy (as per factory spec)
Small one on the right will split to fuel regulator and Microsquirt MAP.
Bottom one is back from the AAR (as per factory spec)





Intake back in place :





Just before rail install :




Fuel rail fully fitted :




Still lots to do but won't get chance until next weekend now.
Didn't get any shot of the AAR back on but will do next week.
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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3
Old 01-30-2016, 08:20 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #257 (permalink)
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Looks good.

Nice to see that you are using good quality hose clamps.
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Carrera 3.0 1975
930 1978 OEM Matte Schwartz, ANDIAL IC, BL WUR, SC cams. LMA-3 w. XD-16 and CP transducer
www.stauningwhisky.dk
Old 01-30-2016, 08:34 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #258 (permalink)
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Finished off the fuel plumbing today, just need to test it for leaks tomorrow.



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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3
Old 02-06-2016, 07:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #259 (permalink)
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I've taken screen shots of every settings page in the TunerStudio program as a reference.
I now need to update the firmware for the MicroSquirt which will in turn reset all the settings and remove any specific FrankenCIS bits.

Then I will be onto the harness. I have a new harness ready to go.
My plan is to carefully strip down the original harness and then move across the required sensors to the new harness installing them on the same cables they where on.
Then I need to install the the extra sensors etc that need to be there for the EFI side, like the engine temp, fuel pump cut off and injectors harness.

At that sage I need to get all the MicroSquirt setting back in and adjected for EFI plus additional settings for EFI.
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1980 SC Flatnose, Euro 3.0, LW Flywheel, 993 Cams, Port & Polish Heads, RS Cut Valves, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, Magnacor Leads, Boxster Brakes, WEVO Mounts, TRG Roll Bars, Rollcage, RSR rear fenders, OE Short Sift, K27 7200 Turbo Conversion, OBX Headers, Tial Wastegate, EFI MicroSquirt v3
Old 02-06-2016, 07:23 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #260 (permalink)
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